Author Topic: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING  (Read 638 times)

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 12 March 19 03:51 GMT (UK) »
Second half:

...John Death ye younger of my sonnes all my tember & planckes which I have both at

home & in the parke and all my ladders save one littell ladder which I geve to my wife

& I make & ordayne John Death the younger my sole executor & I make & ordayn

Stephe(n) Bema(n) my sup(ro)viser & I geve him for his paynes her in taken a hachit thes

legaces shalbe payd at my mentio(n) house being lawfully demanded In witnes yt

this is my last will & testament I have put to my hand & sealle thes be my witnesses

Randolph Lyster Clearke Stephen Bema(n) & Thomas [Tooe?] w(i)t(h) others


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Offline francoso

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 12 March 19 18:46 GMT (UK) »
Again, hd86, thank you for your time and knowledge. Just a couple of queries or clarifications:

1) it seems Laurence had a son John (the elder) who had a son John Laurence's grandson, and also Laurence had another son John (the younger) who became his executor. Is this correct ? I have read elsewhere that two offspring sometimes had the same first name.

2) In Reply No. 8, 2nd line, what is the meaning of "forten" ? I tried looking it up but no reference to it.

3) In Reply No. 8, 4th line, to what does the "eight years" refer ? Is this definitely "eight" as I don't see any other mention of it in the Will ?
Regards, francoso

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Offline francoso

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 02:39 GMT (UK) »
On further looking, would "forten" be "fortunate"; and "eight" refer to the 4 x 2 year periods between payments to the named beneficiaries: John, Thomas, Jone and Alice/Susan ?
francoso

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 04:57 GMT (UK) »
1) it seems Laurence had a son John (the elder) who had a son John Laurence's grandson, and also Laurence had another son John (the younger) who became his executor. Is this correct ? I have read elsewhere that two offspring sometimes had the same first name.

I have checked through the original.

He has John Death my elder sonne, mentioned in Snippet #1.

He has John Death ye younger of my sonnes, mentioned in Snippet #2 & #3.  This John should be the one made executor.

The original wording concerning the possible grandson is this:

...Item I geve & bequeth to ye sonne John my sonne one chist & a peulter dish...

There's no of.  This is ambiguous - has an of been omitted or is it just a clumsy way of referring to the son John (which from context would be the elder John)?

So there may or may not be a grandson.  Reading the whole passage - including the best he cane chose - I would lean towards there not being a grandson, because it implies the beneficiary is old enough to choose the best.

2) In Reply No. 8, 2nd line, what is the meaning of "forten" ? I tried looking it up but no reference to it.

forten = fortune.

It's a standard phrase:  fortune to die / fortune to marry

3) In Reply No. 8, 4th line, to what does the "eight years" refer ? Is this definitely "eight" as I don't see any other mention of it in the Will ?

It's almost certainly eight.  The e and the r are similarly formed, but I'm 99.99% certain it's eight.

The meaning is probably as you have said in your Reply #11.

Offline francoso

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 05:09 GMT (UK) »
Thanks again, hd86. That clarifies my queries. Now to trace the named beneficiaries.
Regards, francoso

Offline francoso

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 07:58 GMT (UK) »
Was there anything of interest in the script at the bottom RHS of the Will regarding Probate ? Perhaps it is in Latin ? Anyone able to translate/transcribe ? Thanks on advance.
francoso

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 12:16 GMT (UK) »
Proved at Bury before Master John De...[?], Doctor of Laws, commissary and designated official, on 5 November 1576, by the oath of the executor. The inventory was examined, total 4 pounds 4[?] shillings [could be 3 shillings]

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 19:01 GMT (UK) »
Regarding the issue of a potential grandson, I have revised my reading of the passage as follows:

...Item I geve & bequeth to ye same John my sonne one chist & a peulter dish...

The vertical line of the a is quite a distance from the round part, making it look like _onn_ more than _am_.

However, if you look at manner on line 5 of #1, the a is formed in the same way.

So there's definitely no grandson.

ADDED:

Same with after in the last line of #1.


Offline francoso

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Re: Will of LAURENCE DEATH 1576 of SHIMPLING
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 20:59 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Bookbox and hd86 for clearing up those queries. Much obliged. francoso