Author Topic: Christian Sicke  (Read 387 times)

Offline Vncrowe

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Christian Sicke
« on: Wednesday 13 March 19 02:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi. Robert Wolfe born 1634 married widow, Christian Sicke/Travers/Trevers, in Saint Bennet Fink London England 1654. Can’t find a birth record for a Christian Sicke supposedly born about 1624 in England. According to her death record, 1674, in the name of Christian Thornton, (she married again after Robert died) she was about 50. Don’t know if her maiden name was Travers/Trevers or if it was Sicke. Also can’t find a birth record for Christian Travers. There is a baptismal record 25 Aug 1615 Dorset but I reckon that Christian Travers would be too old - maybe. Would really appreciate any help with what the maiden name actually was of the Christian who married Robert please.

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Offline jomcd967

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 06:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Vncrowe,

Boyd’s Marriage Index gives her name as Trevers.

There is the original image for their banns and marriage record on Ancestry that looks like it has information on RW’s occupation and parish as well as Christian’s parish but I can only make out every second word! Again her name is Trevors.

Where did Sicke come from?

Jo 🙂
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
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Sipthorpe - Lancashire
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Offline garstonite

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 07:22 GMT (UK) »
lived in St Dunstans in 1655
Name    Samuell Woolfe
Gender    Male
Christening Date    06 Feb 1655
Christening Date (Original)    06 FEB 1655
Christening Place    SAINT DUNSTAN IN THE EAST,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date    06 Feb 1655
................................................
Confirmation of Jo's find - on IGI
Name    Robert Woolfe
Spouse's Name    Christian Trevers
Event Date    01 Jun 1654
Event Place    Saint Benet Fink,London,London,England
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline garstonite

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 07:30 GMT (UK) »
Tree for Robert Wolfe - by KERRY WOLFE - do you know her ?
of course not all trees are correct - but gives Christian Trevers parents as
Samuel Trevers and Elizabeth Harrison - Christian was born 1635 - not 1624
https://gw.geneanet.org/kwolfe1?n=wolfe&oc=&p=robert
a nice bit of luck for you  :) :) :)

so this information you posted
Robert Wolfe born 1634 married widow, Christian Sicke/Travers/Trevers - is wrong - she wasn't a Widow - what made you think she was ??
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline garstonite

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 07:33 GMT (UK) »
did you notice Roberts father was born Gedney ,Lincolnshire ? 
and
Robert was born 8 years before the English Civil War of 1642-1651
they must have seen some hard times - he would be 17 when it finished - I wonder if he fought ??
fascinating thought - I wish I could go back that far in my tree ...jealous  ;)
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline bbart

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 19:30 GMT (UK) »
Tree for Robert Wolfe - by KERRY WOLFE - do you know her ?
of course not all trees are correct - but gives Christian Trevers parents as
Samuel Trevers and Elizabeth Harrison - Christian was born 1635 - not 1624
https://gw.geneanet.org/kwolfe1?n=wolfe&oc=&p=robert
a nice bit of luck for you  :) :) :)

so this information you posted
Robert Wolfe born 1634 married widow, Christian Sicke/Travers/Trevers - is wrong - she wasn't a Widow - what made you think she was ??

In the image of the marriage of Robert Woolfe to Christian Trevers/Travers, it states she is a "widdow", so that tree is... broken. 
I'm not convinced of the remarriage to the Thornton, though. There is a Christian Woolfe burial around 1663/4 (can't remember which, it was yesterday I looked), and also her first marriage seems to be in a C of E parish record, and it looks like Robert was a pastor (so very hard to read!) while the Christian Wolfe (not Woolfe) was a Quaker marriage. 

Woolfe and Wolfe are often spelled by the parish clerk interchangeably, so one can't make any assumptions on that, but it does add to the confusion!

It might be worthwhile for the OP to put a snippet of the marriage in the forum for handwriting deciphering to see if there is anything of value there, especially Robert's occupation, which looks like pastor of (something unreadable) but is lodging (somewhere) in the parish where the marriage took place. 

Offline Vncrowe

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 23:00 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for your input. Very much appreciated. Christian Sicke and Christian Trevers could be two different people of course but the writing on Christian Trevers marriage record to Robert Wolfe seems to have the word “widdow” after her name. I’m no transcriber but I compared the writing to more from around that period and “widdow” is what I make out. I have viewed the trees of others, with the name of Christian Trevers, including that of Kerrywolfe-1. What led me to this issue was a tree on Ancestry (and I know, you can’t depend on other people’s trees). The owner, Arthur Love (Anderson FT)  has come up with Christian Sickes’ name as being the maiden name of Christian Trevers, who had previously been married to Samuel Travers/Trevers. After Robert Wolfe died, she supposedly married Samuel Thornton in 1669 under the name of Christian Wolfe, “widdow”. Yes, too many variations in surname spellings creates confusion, as if it’s not confusing enough.  Thank you once again all for your time and effort.

Offline trish1120

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 14 March 19 11:26 GMT (UK) »
I may be going over what the Tree has but will post anyhow.
(I havent looked at the Tree)

Marriage;
05 Aug 1645, St Mary Woolchurch Haw, Walbrook, London (City)
Samuell TRAVERS  Groom parish   The Parish of Alhallowes Staining
Christian SICKES Bride parish The Parish of St. Peter in Cornhill
Notes;
Mr Samuell Travers. Mrs** Christian Sickes
(FreeREG)

So looks like she could be a Widow

Baptism of MARY Trevers 27 Oct 1646 to SAMUEL/CHRISTIAN
(Anc)

Burial;
Mary Travers
[Mary Wolfe]
Gender:   Female
Burial Date: 26 Jul 1664
Burial Place: London and Middlesex Mm, Middlesex, England
Father: Christian Wolfe
(So should be Mother?)
(Anc)


Possible Marriage on Familysearch.Org;
3 March 1644, Saint Mary At Hill, London, London
William SICKES to Christian HOWKINS

Trish :)
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline bbart

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Re: Christian Sicke
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 14 March 19 16:27 GMT (UK) »
Trish, your version makes much more sense.... that tree has Samuel as Christian's father, not her husband.  It may have some good recent things, but they totally missed that Christian would not have been born a Trevers/Travers.

I can see the actual image of the death of Mary Travers, and it is somewhat enlightening.  Christian Wolfe is not referred to as either mother or father; Anc was just making an assumption in their transcription.  Further, she, along with many other entries, was listed as "Prisoner"!   Most importantly, the records are Quaker records, which gives a boost to her mother marrying Thornton.

So if Christian was a Howkins that married a Sickes, then a Wolfe, then a Thornton..... are we looking at someone with horrendously bad luck, or a black widow!!

Just for giggles, there is one transcription out there for the marriage of Christian Howkins to William SIX!  So now we know how he pronounced it! 

Back to the burial of Mary Travers:  the best I can make out is -
Mary Travers daughter of Christian Wolfe in Mincing Land deceased
the 26th day of the 7th month 1664, of a ffoavor as the Sorehous of the Parish of
Dunstans in the East (so called) (Reported. & was buried the 27th day in ?? said ground.


The next entry has another prisoner with Spotted Ffoaver, so I'm thinking ffoaveer = fever, and possibly Sorehous = sore house = infirmary?

On the marriage of Christian Travers to Robert Woolfe, it is noted that Christian was from Dunstans in the East, so that all fits nicely.