Author Topic: Name used for marriage after divorce  (Read 456 times)

Offline Flemming

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Name used for marriage after divorce
« on: Thursday 14 March 19 20:48 GMT (UK) »
Which name does a woman use when marrying after a divorce - her previous married name or her maiden name? Is this the same for all countries?

Thanks,
Flemming.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online Jebber

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,862
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 14 March 19 21:11 GMT (UK) »
In the UK it is  her first married name, unless she reverted to using her maiden name after the divorce. It should give information about her divorce on the second marriage certificate.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Flemming

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 14 March 19 21:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Jebber. Do you know which is used for indexing purposes? I've got plenty of widows remarrying but not had a divorce before.

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,828
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 14 March 19 22:10 GMT (UK) »
It depends.

For example, in New South Wales, in Australia, one of my aunts (still living, but born before 1920)  has been married three times, two divorces.   I will disguise the SURNAMES she used, but .... here goes :

Let's say she was born Dorothy DOT. 
First marriage was to Mr DASH.  She divorced him, he had deserted her.  No children.   She reverted to DOT, as per electoral rolls,  however  ::)

WHEN she next married, she had been cohabiting with Mr CITIZEN and they had 2 children together before they married.  And when they then married she provided the clergyman with her details as Dorothy CITIZEN, formerly DASH nee DOT,  and she signed as Dorothy Citizen...  Two more children and all four births were registered by Mr CITIZEN at the time of these births, so they have always used that surname.   

Mr Citizen left when the youngest of the four was 14. 

The couple divorced, Dorothy commencing the legal proceedings.  (This is prior to the changes to divorce laws in Australia in the 1970s that brought in "no fault divorce")   The divorce was listed as CITIZEN v CITIZEN in the NSW Supreme Court, and the court papers have been archived and are available to public access at the NSW State Archives.   

The file shows Dorothy as Dorothy Dot, formerly Citizen, formerly Dash, nee DOT, so she had reverted back to her nee name after that desertion and while waiting for the divorce to come through.   

Dorothy next cohabitated with a Mr CITYSLICKER .... and when he died she moved in with one of her adult daughters (born CITIZEN, married Mr SMITH) and she then phoned me to say "oops,  sorry, but next time you send me letter/card/parcel, please address it to Mrs CITIZEN, not to Mrs Cityslicker .... I have reverted to daughter's maiden name ! ").  So she is currently Dorothy CITIZEN, even though her daughter does not use that surname and has not used it for decades... 
OOPS, ADD  (rellies following my threads say I need to add) that Dorothy had married Mr Cityslicker in a pallative care hospital several weeks before he died in that hospital.

In NSW it is still quite legal to become known by any name, so long as you are not attempting to deceive or be fraudulent etc ...

As to how those marriages would be indexed?   Well in NSW BDM the marriage index is NOT available for public scrutiny for the first 50 years .... but .... one of her brothers is a retired NSW BDM senior officer, and another of her relatives is a retired CofE minister.

So, I have phoned both of these relatives.    Yes, indexing ... each of the marriages can be indexed several times,  under each surname found at the heading for her family name/former names  and same for her husband ... and Yes, the officiating clergy or BDM officiating deputy registrar would have had no difficulties with handling all those surnames, they would only need Dorothy to show  the NSW Supreme Court Decrees Absolute for those two marriages.   It is the person who is marrying, they are entitled to be known by any name, so long as they are not deceiving etc ...

 ;D  ;D  I have a male relative who changed his surname to one he selected at random.  He married under that surname ...  ;D and his death is registered under that surname.  His parents surnames are shown on the NSW marriage cert and of course, no explanation was needed to be recorded on that registration.   :D

JM  EDIT to add info about Dorothy's marriage to Mr Cityslicker... :)
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline Flemming

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 14 March 19 22:53 GMT (UK) »
Surprisingly, at this time of night, and after a bucket of collapso, I understood all that :D What a remarkable lady. Never met her, but I like her.

And it reminds me of a conundrum I've been meaning to put to the forum which I hope I can explain just as eloquently. Here goes (names changed to protect the not-so-innocent).

Jane BLOGGS' birth was registered in 1880 to parents who had been married for 18 months (i.e. she was born within wedlock). She married Joe SMITHERS in 1902 under the name of Jane BLOGGS. Their first born Henry was registered in 1904 with mother's maiden name BLOGGS. Joe SMITHERS died in 1905 and Jane remarried George GUMMING in 1907. Her surname is given as SMITHERS on the marriage index.

Newly married George and Jane GUMMING have six children. The first five are registered with the mother's maiden name (mmn) of STOPPER. Yes, STOPPER. Not BLOGGS. The sixth child is born after a move to a new home many miles away and is registered in the maiden name of BLOGGS.

Option 1 for reasons why: the five children with mmn STOPPER were not Jane's. Possible but unlikely. They were known in recent memory and one of them's birth certificate says the mother was 'Jane GUMMING late SMITHERS formerly STOPPER'.

Option 2: even thought Jane BLOGGS was born 18 months after her parents married, perhaps her mother had a fling with Mr STOPPER and this all came out later in life. Mrs BLOGGS did have an illegitimate son before she married. Perhaps she snuck off back to him one night. If this is the case, why did Jane revert to BLOGGS as a mmn for her sixth child?

Option 3: perhaps Jane's father wasn't a BLOGGS. Perhaps he found out later in life he was a STOPPER. But, again, why did Jane revert to BLOGGS for her sixth child and why didn't her sisters use this name for their children's birth registrations?

Option 4: Jane didn't want to admit to the registrar that she was a BLOGGS by birth so made up the name STOPPER. When they moved to a new town, it didn't matter so she used her real mmn.

Any other theories much appreciated!





Online Jebber

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,862
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 14 March 19 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Jebber. Do you know which is used for indexing purposes? I've got plenty of widows remarrying but not had a divorce before.

It all depends on the information given at the time, she would be indexed with the names she had been known by. Marriage details cannot be relied upon.

For example, my mother-in-law who was illegitimate didn't even know her mother's name until I got her birth certificate (she only had the short version).

Quite correctly on her first marriage no father is named, then on her second marriage a father is named, only that man was  a foster parent and definitely not her father. The second marriage is indexed under both her first married name and the foster Father's name, the registrar had assumed that was her maiden name, whereas her real maiden name was not known.

Anyone unaware of the truth would find it difficult to research her origins. A search for her birth of first marriage, with the assumed maiden name, would be fruitless. Although the certificate states she was divorced and from whom, the name was so common it would be difficult to locate her first marriage also.

I have numerous examples of misinformation on certificate, all making traps for us to fall into, but then that is part of the fun of research. ;D
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline Falkyrn

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,005
  • Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 14 March 19 23:09 GMT (UK) »
In the UK it is  her first married name, unless she reverted to using her maiden name after the divorce. It should give information about her divorce on the second marriage certificate.
Not in Scotland. On a second or subsequent marriage a woman would be listed initially under her maiden name with any previous married name added under “previously” .
Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,828
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #7 on: Friday 15 March 19 01:56 GMT (UK) »
......
Any other theories much appreciated!

 ;D  If HE registered the births, then it was he who provided the information .... so perhaps ... errr ... ummm.... did he not know who he had married?   ::)  :)  :) 

 :D if SHE registered the births, then it was she who provided the information .... so perhaps ... errr .... ummm....  I dunno !  ;D  ;D

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline Nanna52

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
  • Edwin WB Vincent, my actor, (1881-1940)
    • View Profile
Re: Name used for marriage after divorce
« Reply #8 on: Friday 15 March 19 03:56 GMT (UK) »
There are times when the names are just confused.  My great grandmothers maiden name was Heale on marriage certificate but on her children’s birth certificates varied between Heale, Hale, Hales and Aust.  The name Aust caused some confusion until I found that her older sister also moved out here after marrying an Aust.  They lived in the same township and I guess people confused them.  She was 17 when she married so I doubt there would have been a previous marriage.
James -Victoria, Australia originally from Keynsham, Somerset.
Heale/Hale - Keynsham, Somerset
Vincent - Illogan/Redruth, Cornwall.  Moved to Sculcoates, Yorkshire; Grass Valley, California; Timaru, New Zealand and Victoria, Australia.
Williams somewhere in Wales - he kept moving
Ellis - Anglesey

Gedmatch A327531