Author Topic: John Cash or John Doran  (Read 439 times)

Offline crazyshotgug69

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Re: John Cash or John Doran
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 17 March 19 18:54 GMT (UK) »

John Cash, born about 1791, Wexford, County Wexford, Ireland. Married Elizabeth Ryan who was born 1795, Enniscorthy, County Wexford, Ireland. Death was 1870, Wexford, Wexford, Ireland. Elizabeth's parents were John Ryan and Susy MacNelly.

Enniscorthy Catholic parish registers at National Library of Ireland
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0593
Baptisms and marriages began 1794. Deaths register Oct. 1815-1880. Confirmations 1848-1880.
1861 census for Enniscorthy is also here, after all the registers.

Edit. Registers are various dates. The baptism register, starting 1794 on the first microfilm is neatly laid out with beautiful handwriting. It seems to be a copy of a baptism register on the second microfilm, which is untidy, with entries crammed on page.
Looking at Eliza's baptism in the register on the first microfilm, a note in the last column is "militia". So Eliza Ryan's father, John Ryan, was a member of the militia.
 Eliza was born near the start of the wars with France which lasted until 1815. John Ryan may have been moved around Ireland and Britain as part of his militia service. He may have gone on to join a regular army regiment. On the other hand he may have done all his military service in Ireland. There was unrest in Ireland at the time, threatened French invasions during the decade and rebellions in 1798. County Wexford was a centre for one of the risings.
Sponsors at Eliza's baptism were Ben Wildrife (?) and Anne Myles. Do those names mean anything to you? Wildrife is an unusual name. Perhaps another militia member? Have you looked for Wildrife entries in Enniscorthy parish registers or in Tithe Aplotttment Books or Griffiths Valuation or census to see if it was a local surname? Sponsors were often, although not always, relatives.
You could browse the baptism registers to look for baptisms of other children of the marriage or possible relatives. Have you searched the marriage register for marriage of John Ryan & Suzy Macnelly? The register began 1794. It's possible they moved from elsewhere. Enniscorthy is unusual in having a death register starting so early - 1815. If I were you I would look in it for possible deaths of Ryan and Macnelly/Macnally/Macneilly  families. Search for Nelly/Nally/Neilly too in case the Mac was missing from name.
Finding an Irish census for 1861 is a bonus. I suggest you browse it, looking for any MacNelly/MacNally/Nally &c. and Ryan. The census was taken only a few years after Griffiths' Valuation.
You're lucky to have such a wealth of early documents to consult. And even some with perfect handwriting. Some of us have gone cross-eyed trying to read scrawls in parish registers when researching our ancestors.  ;D

Alrighty, thanks for the help. I would not be surprised if they travelled around a lot, they do seem to have married a traveller family and if keeping to tradition, irish travellers only really married other irish travellers.

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: John Cash or John Doran
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 17 March 19 20:38 GMT (UK) »

Enniscorthy Catholic parish registers at National Library of Ireland
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0593

Looking at Eliza's baptism in the register on the first microfilm, a note in the last column is "militia". So Eliza Ryan's father, John Ryan, was a member of the militia.
 Eliza was born near the start of the wars with France which lasted until 1815. John Ryan may have been moved around Ireland and Britain as part of his militia service. He may have gone on to join a regular army regiment. On the other hand he may have done all his military service in Ireland. There was unrest in Ireland at the time, threatened French invasions during the decade and rebellions in 1798. County Wexford was a centre for one of the risings.
Sponsors at Eliza's baptism were Ben Wildrife (?) and Anne Myles. Do those names mean anything to you? Wildrife is an unusual name. Perhaps another militia member?

 Have you searched the marriage register for marriage of John Ryan & Suzy Macnelly? The register began 1794. It's possible they moved from elsewhere.

Alrighty, thanks for the help. I would not be surprised if they travelled around a lot, they do seem to have married a traveller family and if keeping to tradition, irish travellers only really married other irish travellers.

Apology for my long and detailed post. In reading it you have overlooked or misunderstood an important point I made. So I've quoted those parts again.

My reason for suggesting the possibility of John Ryan and his wife coming to Enniscorthy from elsewhere was that John Ryan was in the militia when the Kingdoms of Great Britain & Ireland and their allies were engaged in a major European war which lasted more than 2 decades. An estimated quarter of a million men from Britain and Ireland took part.
 The militia were a locally recruited defence force. They were mobilised in times of war or other emergencies and were deployed to wherever they were needed. Apart from the war with Revolutionary France there were plenty other emergencies happening in those times. Thousands of men of military age were moving around Ireland, Britain, Europe and the world because of the war 1793-1815.
 Some of those men married women whom they met when they were away from home; some wives accompanied their husbands when they were moved to a new posting. Some wives gave birth (and buried children) when they were away from home.
There is plenty of information online and in books about militia, French Revolutionary Wars, Napoleonic War, United Irishmen, 1798 Rebellions, military barracks in Ireland and other related topics. Also museums and historical societies in Wexford.
 I was merely alerting you to the possibility that John Ryan and/or his wife, Susy Macnelly may have come from elsewhere and just happened to be in Enniscorthy when their daughter was born/baptised. It was a suggestion.  You would have to do further research on them in Enniscorthy to find out if they were settled there or not. E.g. look for baptisms of siblings of Eliza;  marriage of John Ryan & Suzy MacNelly; evidence of other Macnelly people already there.
Catholics were only allowed to enter the British Army in late 18th century. ( Penal Laws.)

 Family historians find evidence, (in this case that John Ryan was in the militia, as noted at Eliza's baptism), familiarise themselves with the place and the time (Enniscorthy, Wexford, Ireland, 1790s, war with France, all of which are significant), search for corroborating evidence, consider absence of evidence, and remain open-minded to alternative possibilities.

Nowhere in my previous post did I mention the word "traveller". The key word was "militia".

There is no need to quote entire posts. If you want to comment on or query part of a post, quote that bit. If you only want to make a general comment or say thanks for the post, the poster's name and post number is enough. e.g. I might have put " Ruskie, re. reply #6. Thanks, you made a good point."  Or "Rosinish reply #2. Very interesting."

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Offline Ruskie

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Re: John Cash or John Doran
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 17 March 19 22:17 GMT (UK) »
Maiden Stone - what informative posts. You have opened my eyes to the conflicts my Wexford ancestors would have experienced.
I have used the NLI Catholic PRs in an attempt to find mention of my family, without success so far, but your posts have rekindled my interest. Thank you.  :)

Crazyshotgug, I think you need to try to keep an open mind in your search.  ;)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: John Cash or John Doran
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 17 March 19 22:26 GMT (UK) »
Some military information sources.
Army Barracks of Eighteenth-Century Ireland
https://barracks18c.ucd.ie
There's an accompanying map with locations.

Muster/Militia Rolls and Military Records (Ireland) - GenGuide
https://www.genguide.co.uk/source/mustermilitia-rolls-amp-military-records-ireland/132
See the list of websites further down page on the website.

Wexford County Archives has a military section.

There's a website called Irish Garrison Towns
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Also National 1798 Visitor Centre Enniscorthy

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: John Cash or John Doran
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 17 March 19 22:48 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Ruskie.
One of my relatives delved into the history of our surname when I was a child and came up with a leader of the Wexford rebellion. Further research showed him to have been from a totally unconnected family.

This was one of my topics at History 'A' level. History teacher emphasised the importance of considering evidence rationally and asking oneself questions about reliability and potential bias of a source.

I wish there were records for my real family in Mayo like those I saw for Enniscorthy.
 A French force landed in Mayo in 1798 and there was another rising.

Btw FindMyPast is free today for St. Pat's Day. I noticed a prison record for a John Cash in 1860s Wexford. Might be worth a look, crazyshotgug.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: John Cash or John Doran
« Reply #14 on: Monday 18 March 19 03:14 GMT (UK) »
It has given me some hope to know that there might be some records for my family. I will delve into your links later.  :) A "cousin" told me that our common ancestor was involved in some conflict/s in Wexford though it would have been later than those you mentioned. I need to dig out our correspondence to recap on the details.  :)