Officially Confused - George Griffiths, Watchmaker, Liverpool

[rutht22000]

George is my great-grandfather's cousin and he is confusing me....

this sort of reflects back on a previous post of mine as I have made some progress since the post.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=645934.msg4926342#msg4926342

George had children with a lady called Lydia Moller (I cannot find a marriage so maybe that's the issue).  George and Lydia had the following children in Wavertree, Liverpool:

Dora Emily, b.c 1883
Frederick, b.c. 1885
Georgina, b.c. 1886

Lydia then seems to have more children with a man called Philip Atkinson and there is a marriage of a Lydia Moller to Philip Atkinson in 1888 in Liverpool that I think is them.  Philip had been married before and (edited since posted!!) Moller seems to be her first married name as she was born Lydia Cogan.

Philip & Lydia have son John Edward who was baptised on 24 October 1889 at St Bridget, Wavertree

Dora, Frederick and Georgina are then baptised as a job lot on 4 December 1889 St Bridget, Wavertree as children of George and Lydia. George is *not* marked as deceased on the baptisms.

Philip and Lydia then have:

James, bapt. 21 September 1890 St Bridget
Alfred, bapt. 6 November 1895 St Bridget
Lydia, bapt. 27 July 1898 St Bridget

By the time the 1891 census has come around Dora, Frederick and Georgina are all Atkinsons (Class: RG12; Piece: 3002; Folio: 39; Page: 71)

When Dora and Georgina marry (both in 1906 at St Bridget) Dora names her father as Henry Griffiths (watchmaker - deceased) and Georgina as George Griffiths (watchmaker-deceased). Having seen both marriage certificates for the girls I am confident that Dora's is just a mistake as is Frederick who names his father as George Griffiths- a sailor although does not supply his father's first name until 18 months after his wedding in 1905 as the certificate is annotated in 1906.

So, George Griffiths was definitely deceased before 1906 if the girls are right and the only death I can find is 1900 in Liverpool that fits his age. 

So from this I think I can conclude that:

Dora, Frederick and Georgina barely knew their father by the odd information on the marriages
George either died between 1886 and 1888; or
George and Lydia separated between 1886 and 1888
George has gone missing on the 1891 census

So I wonder if ayone can find:

A marriage between George Griffiths and Lydia Moller
George on the 1891 census
George's death to discount the 1900 one

Thank you 

[lancsann]

George had children with a lady called Lydia Moller (I cannot find a marriage so maybe that's the issue).  George and Lydia had the following children in Wavertree, Liverpool:

Dora Emily, b.c 1883
Frederick, b.c. 1885
Georgina, b.c. 1886

all registered with mmn as Cogan not Moller

There is a John Edward Atkinson b 1889 mmn Cogan

[rutht22000]

Hi 

Thank you - yes I've just found Lydia marrying a William Moller in 1875 and she was born Lydia Cogan.

[lancsann]

there is a tree on ancestry that says William Moller died at sea in 1890 in Indonesia. If true it suggests that Lydia was not free to marry George and she marries Phillip as Moller (widow) not Griffiths

edit

However there is a newspaper notice in the Liverpool Mercury which says William Moller of 23 Cambridge St Wavertree (the address of Lydia in 1881) lost at sea on 17th December 1878

[ShaunJ]

lost at sea on 17th December 1878

17 December 1877. The announcement was made in April 1878.

Per the marine deaths register he was from Kingston, Jamaica, last abode Baltimore. He was an AB on the Charlie Hickman.

[lancsann]

sorry I mis-typed the year. I used the newspaper year by mistake

[Raybistre]

A couple of births for Moller/Cogan
    Name:                                        Mother's Maiden Surname:
   MOLLER, CATHERINE  EDA COGAN     COGAN     
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 579
   MOLLER, FLORENCE  MAUD COGAN     COGAN     
GRO Reference: 1878  M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 632

Ray

[DavidJP]

Hi,

From the Horology database on the Liverpool Museums website, link here: http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/wml/collections/horology/detail.aspx?&id=22596&name=George+Griffiths&town=&trade=&page=0

George Griffiths shows as age 15 and at 54, Melville Place, Liverpool in 1871 & age 26 of 35 Herbert Street, Liverpool, bachelor and a boarder in 1881. He shows as a watchmaker on both censuses.


A George Griffiths, watchmaker also shows on this website: http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com/clockmakers-1.php#G

Your George was born in 1855 & the George on the above site in 1860. Are they one & the same or two different George's? Shows as being alive in 1911 with wife & 3 children.

If it is a different George in the second link, apologies for muddying the waters!

Hope this helps.

Kind regards

David

[tubefly]

Ruth
Lydia is in my wife's family tree none of us can find George except for the possible year of his death
which we believe is 1886.
They had three children Dora Emily 1883 West Derby, Frederick 23/Jan/!884 and Georgina 1885 Toxteth 8b220.

Frederick is my wife's Grandfather.
PM me if you wish perhaps we could help each other.

Harry