Author Topic: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album  (Read 359 times)

Offline mamad

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« on: Friday 22 March 19 18:45 GMT (UK) »
Hello All,

My 4x GGF, John Miller, was schoolmaster at Ecclesmachan, West Lothian from 1802 until his death in 1847. The House of Commons' Select Committee on Education circulated a list of Queries to School-Masters in Scotland in 1838. Some of the questions asked academic information re the schoolmaster. His answer showed that he had attended Glasgow University and prior to that Dunblane School. He was qualified to teach reading, writing, arithmetic and Latin.

The Matriculation Albums for Glasgow are online and I found he matriculated in 1799 and came from Dunblane. This fitted with information given above and at the time of his marriage  - a teacher at Mill of Keir.

Wonder if someone can help with the Latin. Does it say "son of William, Craftsman, Dunblane" or something totally different? Take it "2dus" is to do with dominus.

Thanks,
Mags


RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline PrawnCocktail

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 504
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #1 on: Friday 22 March 19 19:15 GMT (UK) »
Try "filius naturalis secundus" second natural son, (they mean born in wedlock) and yes, artificis is a craftsman
Website: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~towcesterfamilies/genealogy/
Towcester - anything, any time
Cheshire - Lambert, Houghland, Birtwisle
Liverpool - Platt, Cunningham, Ditton
London - Notley, Elsom, Billett
Oxfordshire - Hitchcock, Smith, Leonard, Taunt
Durham - Hepburn, Eltringham
Berwickshire - Guthrie, Crawford
Somerset - Taylor (Bath)
Gloucestershire - Verrinder, Colborn
Dorset - Westlake

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,948
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 March 19 21:42 GMT (UK) »
Sorry, but in this context I believe the letter n stands for natu.

So filius natu 2dus = ‘the second son by birth’. Nothing to do with wedlock or otherwise!

ADDED – the abbreviations are on p. 539.

Offline mamad

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 23 March 19 08:12 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks to both.

I had looked at the abbreviations - that's how I worked out William and craftsman - however. couldn't find a "2" and didn't think of secondus. Every day is a school day! Your help has taken me a step further.

Many thanks again.
Mags

Offline ollie_r

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 10 April 19 15:51 BST (UK) »
Sorry for the (completely related) hijack, but would you expect "filii minor[is] natu" to mean "youngest son" or "younger son"?

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,948
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 10 April 19 16:42 BST (UK) »
Latin can’t be reliably translated in very small snippets. The exact meaning depends on the grammar of the whole sentence. This might be ‘son’ or ‘sons’, and it is not ‘youngest’, but ‘younger’. Please post a more extensive clip, showing the whole context, and say what sort of record it is.

Offline ollie_r

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 10 April 19 18:07 BST (UK) »
I can post a bit more but probably not the whole thing due to copyright concerns.

It's an entry in a manor court roll, for Heptonstall in West Yorkshire, dated 1727. Father transferring copyhold to his sons John and Jonathan, where I understand that Jonathan is the older son and he's providing for the younger son whilst not leaving the heir out completely.

Not convinced the available context will actually help distinguish here, but fingers crossed :)

"... houses with appurtenances now in occupation of the aforesaid John Robertshaw or his assigns to the use of John Robertshaw younger/youngest son of the aforesaid John for the rest of his natural life, and after to the use of William his* son and heirs and assigns..."

* I've taken "his" to mean that William is the son of John junior, rather than John senior. It fits better with the known family tree.

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,948
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 10 April 19 18:30 BST (UK) »
It is definitely ‘younger’, not ‘youngest’.

line 3 '... to the use and behoof of John Robertshaw, the younger son by birth of the aforesaid John Robertshaw, during the term of his natural life; and afterwards to the use of William his son and his [William’s] heirs and assigns for ever ...'

I would agree that William is the son of John junior. Probably it is the death of John senior that has led to the surrender of the property, because line 2 describes it as nup(er) in occupacion(e) = lately/recently in the occupation (not ‘now’).

Offline ollie_r

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help for Latin used in University Matriculation Album
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 10 April 19 18:57 BST (UK) »
Great, thanks for the help.