North Russian Expeditionary Force (1918 - 1918)

[M_ONeill]

Hey all,

So I’ve got some hints that suggest that a great grand-uncle of mine may have served in Russia as part of the British component in the North Russian Intervention (1918 - 1919) during the Russian Civil War, specifically with the 17th Battalion King’s Liverpool Regiment as part of the short lived 236th infantry brigade.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any good resources or records to do with this conflict - I’ve been searching to no avail. It seems like the conflict was seen as an embarrassment and not well supported within the War Ministry from the outset so not many records were created.

If anyone knows where to look for more information on the men who served in this conflict I’d be most grateful.

[MaxD]

There is a war diary, not digitised, at the National Archives which includes 17 KLR:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4558579

Use "Syren Force" in a search and you will find some items., one example:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Syren_Or_North_Russian_Expeditionary.html?id=dxXgSAAACAAJ

MaxD

PS Have you found his service record?

[M_ONeill]

Hi Max, thanks for the links! I’ll definitely check them out.

So no service record survives, sadly. My great grand-uncle was an Albert James Monckton (204961), of Pattingham Staffs. I managed to confirm his regiment and number through a surviving pension record. It seems like he had a military disability pension, at least temporarily, due to Pulmonary Tuberculosis.

Someone on another forum looked through men in his number range - it seems based on surviving records that those numbers were assigned out to men who were transferred to the 17th K.L.R. in or around August 1918, apparently from a mixture of regiments as well as new men.

Following the timeline, that would potentially match the build up of the battalion prior to sailing for Russia in September 1918. The battalion was reduced to cadre in May 1918 so I suspect very few soldiers in the Regiment would have served there prior to that date.

[MaxD]

His medal roll entry indicates that 17 KLR was the only battalion he served with overseas so he may have been one of the already serving.  I am uncertain about the number allocation you have been told about.  Looking at the 21 unfortunate souls of 17 KLR who lost their lives and are buried in Russia, there are none with a similar number.  There are 9 with numbers beginning with 114 that does suggest a "batch" of numbers but not starting 204.  I would read this as indicating he was already serving with 17 KLR before the expedition.  Without his record though, can't be certain and 21 is a very small sample so I would not die in a ditch about it!

MaxD

PS  If you are thinking of getting the Force Troops diary copied I believe it will be best to contact someone who offers a copy service and who will extract 17 KLR from the rest, Kew will copy it all.  Alternatively, ask elsewhere if anyone has a copy of the diary already.

[M_ONeill]

Hmm, that’s interesting. Perhaps the other forumgoer has it wrong. I had thought it strange that Albert would have had no overseas service prior to 1918, given his age.

So I suppose it’s possible that he actually never went to Russia. I know from his pension record that his discharge date was 22nd August 1919, one month before the main body of NREF troops game back to England.

It could be that he was assigned to another regiment when the 17th were reduced to cadre, though that makes me wonder why it wouldn’t have been listed on the medal roll, given that he would have been with this hypothetical unit from spring 1918 to summer 1919.

[MaxD]

I am very familiar with and do trust the expertise of the contributor on the other forum which is why I caveated my response.
What he actually said was that the number was among those allotted to 5 KLR in late 16 early 17 and this could have been an "on paper" move.  He leaves open the possibility that he was already with 17 Bn.  His quote On the remaining records that's not really anyway to say. is perhaps more elegant that my Without his record though, can't be certain but is saying the same thing.

MaxD

[M_ONeill]

Ah, okay, I understand your meaning, now. Thank you for the clarification! 🙂