Author Topic: Stumbling Blocks  (Read 11971 times)

Offline NorthernGeezer

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Stumbling Blocks
« on: Sunday 24 March 19 14:14 GMT (UK) »
New to this forum and if I've posted this question in the wrong section, apologies  ;)
I always new that when i started on this journey the 'problem' relative would be my paternal grandfather  :P
Fortunately my father is alive but details he can provide (or not) are very scant.
The bits he does know about my grandfather (or thinks he knows).....................
That he was born on the Welsh/English border
That he was the black sheep of the family
That he left the UK around 1909 to go to America
That he returned home to fight in the great war (date unknown)
That he was wounded in the great war
That at some point in time he re-spelt our family name (from Davies to Davis) but i'm pretty certain he didnt do it officially
That he lied to my grandmother by subtracting 17 years off his true age  :-\
Now, the bits i do know...................
Firstly, i have a date of death which equates to my grandfather being born in 1889.
Secondly i have a marriage certificate which equates to him being born in 1894.
I have a copy of his marriage certificate which gives his fathers name.
Thirdly, I cant find any trace of the family in the 1939 register even though i have good information regarding my father and grandmother.
So, i'm basically stuck in actually finding anything other than the above about my grandfather and its his birth i'm really looking for.
Any suggestions regarding my next step would be gratefully appreciated

Offline chempat

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 24 March 19 14:54 GMT (UK) »
'Thirdly, I cant find any trace of the family in the 1939 register even though i have good information regarding my father '

Your Father is still alive, so will not show.

Welcome to rootschat.

Could you give us some names, please.

Online heywood

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 24 March 19 15:18 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

It is difficult to give advice without knowing more about the details. As  chempat says names would help and so would dates and places.
Does the marriage certificate give his fatherís occupation?
Do you have him in 1901 census?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 March 19 15:49 GMT (UK) »
Have you access to your own father's birth certificate? That should give you name, and area they were living in at the time of your own father's birth, and you may be able from that (if you haven't already got it) to get hold of that grandfather's wedding certificate - and that should give the name of his father, the addresses of the parties concerned, names of witnesses, and the location that the marriage took place. Those can all help you trace them. You should from some of that have a chance of finding that grandfather in 1939, with or without spouse, ( and of course a blanked out son - your father). You also might find 1901 or 1911 censuses that could be helpful. Good luck.
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 March 19 20:45 GMT (UK) »

That at some point in time he re-spelt our family name (from Davies to Davis) but i'm pretty certain he didnt do it officially
That he lied to my grandmother by subtracting 17 years off his true age  :-\
Now, the bits i do know...................
Firstly, i have a date of death which equates to my grandfather being born in 1889.
Secondly i have a marriage certificate which equates to him being born in 1894.
I have a copy of his marriage certificate which gives his fathers name.

I have Davies/Davis ancestors depending on how the name was recorded.
How do you know he subtracted 17 years of his age if you don't know his age?
 Age on death certificate can be unreliable.
Is there an actual age on his marriage certificate?
As others have said, finding him on 1901 census should help. More likelihood of his age having been recorded correctly on it. What did he give as his father's occupation on marriage certificate?
Cowban

Offline NorthernGeezer

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 March 19 20:57 GMT (UK) »
Bit more info......................
Firstly, my father.
Born in Salford in 1933 and lived in Manchester all his life.
I have quizzed him about about his whereabouts in 1939 when he was 6 and that would either be at relatives in Wheelock, Cheshire or at home in Salford.
I'm assuming only he was evacuated and my grandfather, Thomas James Davis (Davies) who would have been 50 and my Grandmother Elsie Jane Davis (Davies/ nee Bell) would have still been at home in Salford.
I cant find either of them on the 1939 census.
My grandfather.............
The only official document i have is his marriage certificate  from 1930 which shows him as 36 meaning he would have been born in 1894.
Married in Salford and his father is listed as Thomas Davis, farmer (deceased)
Whilst i dont have his death certificate, i have found the Record Transcription of his death which confirms he was 73 in 1962 and that he was born in 1889.
What confuses the situation is the belief he was born on the England/Wales border, not really in either country so it rules out the big Welsh towns, and the fact his father was a farmer swings me towards a rural type community.
I am of the opinion that at some point before 1930 he moved to Salford as it would appear that he and my grandmother met in the mill they worked at.
I'm presuming therefore that both of them were still in Salford in 1939 but cant find either of them on the register.
Any further help or advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Offline NorthernGeezer

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 24 March 19 21:02 GMT (UK) »
There is a family story that he subtracted 17 years off his true age to make himself more appealing to my grandmother, but she never struck me as someone who would believe such a thing.
If he was born in 1889 that would have made him 41 when he married.
If we take his married age of 36 as gospel then 1894 was when he was born and the details on his 1962 death record is wrong.

Offline mckha489

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 24 March 19 21:03 GMT (UK) »
Do you have your grandmotherís exact date of birth?
Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline NorthernGeezer

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Re: Stumbling Blocks
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 24 March 19 21:20 GMT (UK) »
14th December 1905 born in Sandbach/Wheelock Cheshire