Stumbling Blocks

[NorthernGeezer]

Firstly, i have a date of death which equates to my grandfather being born in 1889.

If you do not have a death certificate, how sure are you that this is him?
Age on death relies on the knowledge of the informant. You would need the certificate to check that.

I know he died in 1962 and my grandmother was still alive then.
I actually got his date of death from his gravestone but i take your point, i'll order up his death certificate i think.

[heywood]

Did your grandmother move to Leigh after her husband’s death? Perhaps to be with family?

[NorthernGeezer]

Do you have dates of birth for Alice or Mary?   Husband for Mary?
Just thinking Elsie could be with one of them but mistranscribed.
I've got year of birth for both, Alice Bell in 1907 and Mary Ann Clutton in 1883.

Also. Do you know any names of your grandfathers siblings? My dad thinks he only had a brother, Harry Davies/Davis as he is named after him.
Things are very sketchy about Thomas James Davies/Davis as the story goes that he was the black sheep of the family.
I'm not even sure of him going to America when he was 20 is true, or the fact he might have changed the name from Davies to Davis.
I've just found out this weekend from my father that they owned a Chip shop in Salford in 1933 because he was born there.
Why he never mentioned this in the past is a matter of conjecture 
(To help narrow down 1901 possibilities)

[NorthernGeezer]

Did your grandmother move to Leigh after her husband’s death? Perhaps to be with family?

No. After he died she moved in to a flat in Newall Green Wythenshawe, i know this cos i visited often.
At some point she went to live with my aunt, her daughter Margaret Shaw, In Astley.

[NorthernGeezer]

Firstly, i have a date of death which equates to my grandfather being born in 1889.

If you do not have a death certificate, how sure are you that this is him?
Age on death relies on the knowledge of the informant. You would need the certificate to check that.

We buried my wifes brother last year and i was suprised that when we registered his death how they relied on my wifes knowledge about his particulars rather than providing any factual or documented proof.

[NorthernGeezer]

Aaah, interesting.
 Have you looked at the not free 1939 which we cannot quote - the transcribers have better eyesight.?

I've joined 'Find My Past' to track down all this stuff and i've found my Grandmother in Blackpool in 1939 with her son Rowland but not my father Harry or my Grandfather Thomas James.
Assuming Grandad stayed In Salford to look after the Chippy, i still cant find him under the potential birth years of 1889 or 1894

[heywood]

Her death in Astley would be registered in Leigh so that explains that.

The children in 1939 would be covered. Rowland will be shown because the record will have been updated after his death.

[NorthernGeezer]

Where did you find Elsie Jane Bell's actual birth date?

Is this her assumed death:
Elsie Davis  14 December 1905    died Dec 1982   Manchester
This now gets confusing because i have evidence of her birth in 1905 which refers to her mothers maiden name, Mary Ann Clutton.
I also have found evidence now of the 1906 date which references her father Joseph Bell.
My gut feeling is the 1905 date is correct assuming her birth wasnt registered till the following quarter.
Wheelock is quite a rural area even now and if he had to travel to a town to register i can see him waiting till after christmas.
Also, her death registered in Leigh in 1982 may be correct as Astley is not far from Leigh, but i have evidence that says Manchester and gives her birth date as 14/12/1905   

or this:
Elsie Jane Davies   8 January 1906  died  Sep 1982   Leigh  Greater Manchester

[NorthernGeezer]

Where did you find Elsie Jane Bell's actual birth date?

Is this her assumed death:
Elsie Davis  14 December 1905    died Dec 1982   Manchester   

or this:
Elsie Jane Davies   8 January 1906  died  Sep 1982   Leigh  Greater Manchester

That’s interesting chempat and explains a lot.

Joseph Bell’s military record gives Elsie Jane’s birth as 8th January 1906 so looks as though you are on the right track. Do you have a link to his military record, i cant find it 

.