What happened to Lily Munro Born 1889 Blackburn Lancashire.

[Lancashire ancestors]

Reply #21
Hi Kay99 & Wovenhoe thanks again for all your help. I’ve been busy on the search with your great leads. I now have the birth certificate for Arthur Preston Munro b. 18 June 1908 Mother is Lily Munro (19yrs) Birth was at a residential address 3 Cliffe Square, Great Harwood. How could I find out who lived there, as it’s in between the 1901 & 1911 census? In the 1901 census I know Lily Munro lived at 114
Queen St, Great Harwood.

[Lancashire ancestors]

Hi Maiden Stone
#26

Thank you for that information. I’ll go back and search that LAN site and see what I can find 🙏🏼.

Arthur Preston Munro was born at 3 Cliffe Square, Great Harwood, 18/6/1908. Do you know what Parish this is under to search the bastardry/illegitimate laws site to search if Lily Munro requested financial support from the father? Is that something done immediately after birth while still in Great Harwood, as I see in the 1911 census Lily lived at 32 Valley Rd Barnoldswick.
Any advice for going forward appreciated. Thank you 🙏🏼😌

[Lancashire ancestors]

In addition to my last post.
Was it called ‘Presentments for Fornication’ ?
I’m really not sure of the correct terminology in 1908, where the mother of an illegitimate child has to inform the parish of the child’s father name to request financial support, so the parish didn’t have to provide financial assistance.
Any assistance/education on this  would be appreciated.

[Maiden Stone]

Arthur Preston Munro was born at 3 Cliffe Square, Great Harwood, 18/6/1908. Do you know what Parish this is under to search the bastardry/illegitimate laws site to search if Lily Munro requested financial support from the father? Is that something done immediately after birth while still in Great Harwood, as I see in the 1911 census Lily lived at 32 Valley Rd Barnoldswick.

Great Harwood was in Blackburn Registration District.
Lancashire Towns and Parishes  on GENUKI     https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/parishes#G
UKBMD Registration Districts in Lancashire      https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/lan.html
GENUKI is a good source for finding out about places and locations of records for the place.
Barnoldswick is near Lancashire-Yorkshire border. It was an urban district in West Riding of Yorkshire 1894-1974. Barnoldswick was transferred to the Borough of Pendle, Lancashire in 1974. There was a massive reorganisation of English local government in 1974. Some county boundaries altered.

I suppose a mother could request assistance for her child at any time they were in need. I don't know what the procedure was a century ago. Lily might not have asked for support. Being a cotton weaver, she could earn her own living, even with a baby/young child. Even some married women with babies worked. A young women mill worker in Lancashire was better paid than most single women elsewhere. If she gave up her job for a while she might return to it later or find a job in another mill.  In contrast, a domestic servant was poorly paid and she would have been dismissed without a 'character' (reference) if she was pregnant.

[Lancashire ancestors]

Hello to all that have helped me this far.....

I've been continuing my search for all the information for my ancestry.

I know now that my great grandmother was Lily Woodall (nee Munro or Howarth as she used both) was on a passenger ship ARMADALE. London to Fremantle in 1912.
Passengers were:
Lily Woodall (my great grandmother)
Ida Woodall 14 (Lilys step daughter)
Arthur Woodall 5 (Lilys biological first son, father unknown)
Thomas Woodall 1 (Lilys biological second son, father is her husband Thomas Woodall)

My questions now are  -
How did Arthur return to Lancashire as a minor??? How do I locate that information...I'm stuck.
What Workhouse or schooling did he attend.
His Grandmother Louise Munro and Aunty Louise and Aunty Ann lived in Barnoldswick town at last census prior to leaving for Melbourne.

I know he lived in Lancashire until he was 15 or 16.
I believe he was in a workhouse during that time as his mother lived in Western Australia.
I know that Arthur definitely returned to Lancashire because I can see he returned later via passenger ship to Melbourne with his grandmother Louise Howarth and Aunty Louise Howarth
(Arthur was born in Great Harwood, Lancashire June 1908. His full name at birth was Arthur Preston Munro. His family had him written down as Arthur Howarth and Arthur Munro) on a UK census I have seen prior to 1912)

Any help or direction I should take would be appreciated! Fingers crossed!

[Maiden Stone]

My questions now are  -
How did Arthur return to Lancashire as a minor??? How do I locate that information...I'm stuck.
What Workhouse or schooling did he attend.
His Grandmother Louise Munro and Aunty Louise and Aunty Ann lived in Barnoldswick town at last census prior to leaving for Melbourne.

I know he lived in Lancashire until he was 15 or 16.
I believe he was in a workhouse during that time as his mother lived in Western Australia.
I know that Arthur definitely returned to Lancashire because I can see he returned later via passenger ship to Melbourne with his grandmother Louise Howarth and Aunty Louise Howarth
(Arthur was born in Great Harwood, Lancashire June 1908. His full name at birth was Arthur Preston Munro. His family had him written down as Arthur Howarth and Arthur Munro) on a UK census I have seen prior to 1912)

Any help or direction I should take would be appreciated! Fingers crossed!

Incoming passenger ships to Britain?
School leaving age in England was raised to 14 in 1918. As Arthur was 15/16 when he went to Australia for the second time, he would have been of working age for 1-2 years, if he'd been in England during that time. Without evidence to the contrary, I assume he stayed with his grandmother and/or aunts and if he worked, it was most likely in a local mill. If a relative worked in a particular mill, s/he might have arranged a job there for Arthur.  What was his occupation in Australia?

[wivenhoe]

Arthur Preston MUNRO born 1908 June 18, Lancashire, to Lily MUNRO...no father recorded.

Lily WOODALL nee MUNRO, arrived Fremantle 12 Jun 1914, with Ida WOODALL 14y,  Thomas WOODALL 1y,  Arthur WOODALL 5y

"..1923, Lilys mother, Louisa HOWARTH (Munro) took Lily’s son born Arthur Preston Munro (listed on 1911 census Arthur Howarth) when aged 16 to Australia for a better life on Unassisted Passengers ship with her 2 other daughters Louisa Howarth & Ann Howarth."

"Ormuz" Sep 1923 Unassisted Passenger arrivals
HOWARTH Mrs L 56y, Miss L HOWARTH 24y, Mstr Arthur HOWARTH 16y.

Why do you think it is the same Arthur?

Your Reply #13
"...I think it’s possible Arthur Munro possible went to Swinton Industrial School from 1912? until he left Lancashire at age 16 years."

You need to account for Arthur Preston......what?.......MUNRO / HOWARTH?......being at the Industrial School. Is he your Arthur...or isn't he?

If he is not in the Industrial School, you need to consider that there are two boys named Arthur, born 1907 /1908.

Ida WOODALL 14 years, and Arthur WOODALL 5 years at arrival Fremantle 1914 are not appearing in WA after this date....using BDM....Trove.....WW2 enlistment etc.....


This certificate would be useful to you. It will name Lily's children.
WA BDM death
FREITAG   Lily   Female   64y   parents Eli   / Louisa   @   Fremantle   200   1954

This certificate would be useful to you. It will name Thomas's children.
WA BDM death
WOODALL   Thomas H   Fremantle   330   1943

The aim is to account for Ida and Arthur who arrive, Fremantle, 1914....who are their parents?


This certificate for Louisa would be useful to you. It will name her children. Whatever stories have been passed down over .....eighty years.......reality might be quite different.
BDM VIC death
7361 / 1932 HOWARTH      Louisa    parents  Thomas MUNRO / Elizabeth BECK
died at Richmond

Use this site -
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates
to see Will / Probate files for Louisa HOWARTH, died 1932.

This would be useful to you. Same reason....whatever stories have been passed down over .....eighty years.......reality might be quite different.

[Lancashire ancestors]

Thank you both Maiden Stone #32 &
Wovenhoe #33

You are both very giving of your time with your replies and this is greatly appreciated.

It’s currently 1.30am, I will reply tomorrow as I do now have a few certificates in my possession and I’ll be able to reply more concisely with these at hand.

[SelDen]

[quote author=wivenhoe link=topic=810524.msg6778013#msg6778013 dat

Your Reply #13
"...I think it’s possible Arthur Munro possible went to Swinton Industrial School from 1912? until he left Lancashire at age 16 years."

You need to account for Arthur Preston......what?.......MUNRO / HOWARTH?......being at the Industrial School. Is he your Arthur...or isn't he?

If he is not in the Industrial School, you need to consider that there are two boys named Arthur, born 1907/1908
[/quote]

A 13 year old Arthur Monroe left England in 1921 for Canada with a large number of other boys of similar ages. No information as to where he came from, but a possibility for the boy in the industrial school?