Author Topic: Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)  (Read 237 times)

Offline Simsam

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Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)
« on: Monday 25 March 19 17:41 GMT (UK) »
Hello, I would be grateful for any assistance with the following, which I'm completely stuck on please. I think these may be either two sisters or even possibly the same person.

I have 1824 references to "Sally Russell, one of the finest girls in Staffordshire". She was single and of marriageable age.
I have also seen an 1820-1830 letter from Edith Russell, "The Laurels", postmarked Dudley. She was also single, probably late teens. Edith has an Aunt Jennifer, but no mention of a sister.

Sally could be Sarah, Edith could be Meredith.

They've both come up in connection to the same person I'm researching. I am hopefully looking for one family, with daughters called Sarah & Meredith, living in the Dudley area in circa 1825. 

I've eliminated -
Sarah Russell baptised 10 Sep 1810 Saint Bartholomew, Wednesbury, Stafford who married a carter George Cutts in 1833. His profession is too working class though.
I also got excited about a Sarah Meredith Russell, but she married in 1856 (too late I think).

Twenty years later and they'd all be listed as a family in the 1841 census, but no luck alas.
Brown (Chester)
Monk (Neston, Parkgate)
Humfrey (Chester)

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Offline avm228

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Re: Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)
« Reply #1 on: Monday 25 March 19 18:05 GMT (UK) »
Why do you think Edith might be Meredith?  Meredith (anglicised spelling) is traditionally a Welsh male name, and I must say I haven't seen an example of its being used as a first name for a female before the 20th century.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Offline avm228

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Re: Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)
« Reply #2 on: Monday 25 March 19 18:10 GMT (UK) »
Who was Edith writing to, and can the letter/stamp/postmark be dated more precisely than 1820-1830?

What is the source of the references to Sally?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Simsam

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Re: Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)
« Reply #3 on: Monday 25 March 19 18:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi avm288, thanks for your message.

For Edith -
I have a jokey / affectionate letter, which reads like it was written from a young lady to a slightly older man. He has just bought her a fancy dress and she's talking about all the parties she and her family have been to. She mentions the "Old Turk" and the "Oratorio".

The letter is undated, but written to the merchant navy agent of Monk, a former RN lieutenant who joined the merchant navy in 1823-24. So it won't be before that in fact. It refers to an insurance claim which would likely relate to shipwrecks in 1827 or 1837. My suspicion is the earlier of the two (so possibly 1827ish).

The postmark is just DUDLEY, nothing more helpful. The letter is written from "The Laurels".

She talks about the family being visited by George Whateley, who I looked into and think I concluded was a Birmingham solicitor. (I can check notes tonight). The family are clearly well-off. They have several families over for dinner and everyone dances.

I have no special reason to think that Edith = Meredith. I was clutching at straws I'll admit!

For Sally -

Monk talks separately in 1824 to someone about Sally Russell ("the finest girl in Staffordshire") who he likes, which the listener records in a diary. In a separate letter, his family thinks Monk and Sally are likely to get married, which they don't.

I've been looking for this Sally Russell for ages. It was just by chance that I recently came across a separate letter to him from an Edith Russell. Both share a surname, both have a Staffordshire link, and both seem to be young ladies of a similar age, and close to Lieut Monk.

Sally is the closest that Lieut Monk seems to have got to marrying, and I'd love to know what happened to her.



Brown (Chester)
Monk (Neston, Parkgate)
Humfrey (Chester)

Offline Simsam

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Re: Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)
« Reply #4 on: Monday 25 March 19 21:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi avm228, I think I've found a lead which I'm investigating.

Sarah Russell (1802-1884) married Francis Foreman Clark (Rev). She had a brother called John James, and there is a John James mentioned in Edith's letter. I'm not sure who Edith was though. I'm wondering whether I haven't misread Edith instead of Elizabeth. I've put the photo on the handwriting deciphering forum along with some other writing queries (page 3, at the very end)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=810354.0


Brown (Chester)
Monk (Neston, Parkgate)
Humfrey (Chester)

Offline Simsam

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Re: Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 26 March 19 06:15 GMT (UK) »
I've satisfied myself that Sally Russell is Sarah Russell, daughter of James Russell, gas-tube manufacturer. There is a reference the letter to John James, the name of one of Sarah Russell's brothers. As for "Edith", I think currently that this is a mistake on my part.
Brown (Chester)
Monk (Neston, Parkgate)
Humfrey (Chester)

Offline avm228

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Re: Sally and Edith Russell, Staffordshire (1820-1830)
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 26 March 19 07:25 GMT (UK) »
Could Edith be a member of the wider Russell family- perhaps a daughter of John Russell, James' brother with whom he was in business?  I see that John had a public house called the Turk's Head in Wednesbury - could that be the "Old Turk"?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)