Author Topic: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.  (Read 382 times)

Offline CitizenSmith

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 14 April 19 16:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Poppy Rose

And, the last instalment, in answer to your question <<In the 1851 census, on FamilySearch, unmarried Hannah Draper has a niece Kelly Draper, aged 4, and a nephew Elias Draper, aged 9, staying with her. Does anyone know who their parents were?>>

I believe the niece's name is Relly rather than Kelly, perhaps short for Mirelli or Marella which is a forename found in the Draper family. Relly can be found as an adult as the partner of one Francis Kemp. In online census indexes, her name is spelt as Rahilly in 1881, Reily in 1891 and Ratty in 1901. She has a daughter called Fambridge with her in 1881, aged one, who in later censuses becomes 'Fanny' and 'Amy'. As 'Ralley Kemp', she dies in 1903 in Epping Forest Registration District aged 55.

There is one theory that Relly and Elias were the children of a Mirelli Draper, the daughter of Edward Draper and Frances Brinkley, who was baptised on 27 October 1822 at King's Walden, Herts. Mirelli married Edward Shaw at Holy Trinity, Cambridge, on 10 May 1846. No baptisms have so far been traced for any children of the couple - but it would make sense for a mother called Mirelli to name a daughter after herself, albeit in the shortened form of 'Relly'.

Edward, the father of the 1822 Mirelli, could be the same man who fathered the Draper children Goliah/Elias, Caroline, Randolph and Diverus and Hezekiah Carey that I listed in my first response, their mother being Mary/Mary Ann. Perhaps Mary died after the birth of Diverus and Edward then had Mirelli by a new partner?

Sorry to say, I have no record of the identity of the Elias Draper born c1842 or what happened to him after the 1851 census.

All good wishes
Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 629
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 14 April 19 16:27 BST (UK) »
   

While i have been researching i came across some records of the Drapers, if you find the fuller articles in the Archives of the Newspapers there is much information in these storys, lots of names and locations


Tuesday 24 January 1939
  Leighton Buzzard Observer and Linslade Gazette
  Bedfordshire 


MR. NELSON DRAPER A TRAVELLING CUTLER
  A well-known figure in a wide area around Leighton Buzzard, Mr. Nelson Draper, aged 78 years, of 52. Bassett Road, Leighton Buzzard, died on Friday after two month’s illness. The only travelling cutler in the town


Tuesday 31 January 1939
  Leighton Buzzard Observer and Linslade Gazette
  Bedfordshire 

MR. NELSON DRAPER'S FUNERAL
 Mr. Nelson Draper, aged 78 years, of 52, Bassett Road, Leighton Buzzard, was laid to rest in Leighton Buzzard Cemetery on Tuesday, the Rev. J. R. Paget conducting the service 
 
  Friday 18 June 1937
  Biggleswade Chronicle
  Bedfordshire
 
 A VETERAN GIPSY
One notable person in the history of Arlesey was Elizabeth Draper, gipsy, w'ho died in 1799 under a hedge, at the age ot 108. Her favourite pet was a white donkey.It was said she hadn’t slept in bed for 70 years. Her husband was a fiddler and 
 

 Saturday 28 May 1870
  Luton Times and Advertiser
  Bedfordshire 

STOTFOLD.
Died recently at the above place, Samuel Draper, better known as Old Sam Draper. Gipsy fiddler, who will remembered by the people of Herts, and Beds. The old man breathed his last at this village, and bequeathed £205 in the bank to his widow
 

 Friday 25 November 1859
 Shrewsbury Chronicle
  Shropshire 

deeply lamented. 17th inst., in frail tent, on Homer-common, near Much Wenlock, aged 86, Righteous Draper, an old gipsy. His old widow, 83, refusing the blessings of the union-house, on Monday placed the tent and other worldly goods on ...

Friday 31 January 1902
  Exeter and Plymouth Gazette
  Devon 

 The death has occurred in Reading of Frederick Draper, aged 105. Draper was a gipsy, he resided with his son, now eightysix years of age, in a cottage near Whitley Woods. His wife died fifty years since 
 

Saturday 12 March 1859
  Berkshire Chronicle
  Berkshire, England

 the body of Sibilena Draper, a gipsy woman, who, if the statement of the husband can be relied on, would have attained the extraordinary age 109 years next month.' About a fortnight since the deceased and her husband, George Draper, with a daughter, camped 
 

  Saturday 24 August 1878
  Pontypool Free Press
  Monmouthshire 

coroner, W. Lewis, Esq., touching the death of Israel Draper, a gipsy, who was over 100 years of age, and well known and respected in the locality. The only evidence given was that of Selina Draper, daughter of the deceased— herself about 60 years of age-who 
 

 Friday 11 May 1934
  Diss Express
  Norfolk 

FUNERAL OF AGED GIPSY sinfi slender
... . Messrs. Edward Brown and Horace Barham (sons-in-law). Mrs. Mimmy Slender (daughter-in-law); Messrs. George Draper. Edward Draper. L. Draper. R. Barham, Mrs. W Wilson. Mrs. Gray. Mr. Gray. Mr. Edward Jarrell. Mr. J. Lamb. Mr. Palmer and Mr. and Mrs. ...

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline panished

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 629
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 14 April 19 18:01 BST (UK) »
 

In all the notes i had there was Elias Drapers, so as you said you was looking for notes about an Elias i have put on the extracts 


 Friday 01 June 1888
  Herts & Cambs Reporter & Royston Crow
  Hertfordshire 

Elias Draper was summoned for assaulting Jacob and Alfred Gardner, members of the Salvation Army, on the 11th of October, 1886. It was stated that Draper had been travelling about the country 
 
  Friday 18 February 1898
  Herts & Cambs Reporter & Royston Crow
  Hertfordshire 

Arehetaus Smith, Elias Draper, and Edward Brinkley, described as gipeies, were summoned for trespassing in search of conies
 
  Monday 26 February 1900
 Cambridge Daily News
  Cambridgeshire 

A Gipsy Trouble. Elias Draper (30), gipsy, pleaded guilty to charge of damaging the roadway at the Broadway, Harlow, by driving stakes and poles thereon
 
  Saturday 21 August 1841
  Bedfordshire Mercury
  Bedfordshire 

BIGGLESWADE PETTY SESSIONS. Present Ret. J. Hull; F, Pyrn, Esq.; and S. Thornton, Esq.   Nelson and Elias Draper were bound over in the sum of £2O to appear at the Quarter Sessions, Bedford, to answer to a charge of prise fighting, at Sandy
 

 Saturday 20 July 1895
  Bedfordshire Times and Independent
  Bedfordshire 

 Elias Draper, dealer, of Eaton Socon, did not appear to answer charge of using threats towards John Woods at Eaton Socon.—The case was remanded 
 

Saturday 09 August 1884
  Cambridge Independent Press
   Cambridgeshire 

alias Thomas Jones, a travelling gipsy, was summoned for assaulting Elias Draper, another travelling gipsy, at Ramsey, on the Ist of August. The case was dismissed.—The same defendant for assaulting Caroline Smith, a gipsy, on the same day, was fined Is. and lls. costs. Summonses against Elias Draper and Divirus
 

  Saturday 31 August 1889
  Herts Advertiser
  Hertfordshire 

SHENLEY. Stealing Partridge Eggs —At the Barnet Petty Sessions, on Monday, Elias Draper (68), gipsy, was fined 3s., with 8s. costs, for stealing six partridge eggs from a nest a field at Shenley
 

Friday 25 October 1895
 Cambridge Independent Press
  Cambridgeshire 

Snaring. Elias Draper, also a travelling hawker, was fined 20s. and costs for using snare for the purpose of taking game

 Saturday 21 June 1884
 Essex Newsman
  Essex 

Damaging a Plantation.— Elias Draper, alias Harris, a boy, a travelling hawker, was charged with cutting certain trees 
 
   
Saturday 24 October 1868
 Hertford Mercury and Reformer
  Hertfordshire

Stealing Lord Lytton's Boat Cover. Elias Draper, aged 17, of Cambridge, described as a gipsey who travels with a van
 

Offline CitizenSmith

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 14 April 19 22:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Panished

Many thanks for all these - some I knew about, some I didn't. So good additions to my database.

All good wishes
Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

Offline Poppy Rose

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 14 April 19 22:52 BST (UK) »
Thank you Sharon and Panished.  :)

Lots to go through. Unable to this evening, but I will do a.s.a.p. and get back to you in a day or so. All very much appreciated.  :)
Gilding, Eagle, Perry, Wright, Twite, Cooper, Gibson and Ramm in West & Central Norfolk.
Littlewood, Bacon, Oxley and Fairbrother in North East Essex.

Offline CitizenSmith

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: DRAPER's of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 19 May 19 16:42 BST (UK) »
Just wondered if you have been able to digest all the Draper material in the past four weeks and if you have any questions or comments?

Any information you have relating to these families would be very welcome. Thank you.

Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

Offline Poppy Rose

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: DRAPERs of Hertfordshire and beyond, musicians.
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 21 May 19 10:40 BST (UK) »
Hello Sharon

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I had to put family history research "on hold" for a few weeks.

I have recently started going back through the online newspaper archive to see if anything new has been added for the family of Samuel and Margaret/Peggy, but all I can see is what I had before, just a couple of Petty Session appearances, both mentioned in the Hereford Mercury, for their daughter Hannah Draper (b.1795). In the newspaper of 1847 17th April Hannah was fined, for breaking a hedge, at Hitchin Sessions, and in the paper of 1862 30th August, at Stevenage Sessions, she was fined for stealing peas. Again in the Hertford Mercury newspaper, 1837 23 December, a Joseph Draper appeared at Hitchin Sessions. This may, or may not, have been Joseph (b.1798), the brother of Hannah. He was fined £5, which he paid, for coursing a hare with another man and two dogs.

I have also been trying to work out who the Ann Draper was that lived with the Joseph mentioned above, and his wife. In the 1841 census this Ann was recorded as 5 years old, and aged 15 in the 1851 census, and the daughter of Joseph, but in the next two census returns she was recorded as his niece. The 1851 and 1861 census returns gives her birthplace as Harpenden, Hertfordshire.

The pictures of Samuel Draper are very interesting. It is always nice to put a face to a name, and I have now found the 1851 census for him and his family that I hadn't come across before, so thank you for pointing that out.

 :)
Gilding, Eagle, Perry, Wright, Twite, Cooper, Gibson and Ramm in West & Central Norfolk.
Littlewood, Bacon, Oxley and Fairbrother in North East Essex.