Author Topic: Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire  (Read 243 times)

Offline goldie61

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Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire
« on: Monday 01 April 19 02:05 BST (UK) »
Can anybody see what's missing here please?
It's from the Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire, between about 1628 and 1631 - the previous page gives a date of 1628, and the next 1631. I think there may be a date at the top of this, but it is very faint. Possibly make out a '6' and a '3'.

I have:

‘Itm p(re)sent Walter Homsley gent in Auglir Ver.. for getting Stone &
Carryinge it out of the Lord p    in  ... ‘

Happy to be corrected on anything I've managed to decipher!

My ancestor is in the list, with his son (probably aged about 5 at the time), - making 2 pence!

Thanks very much
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

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Offline horselydown86

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Re: Help needed please.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 01 April 19 06:52 BST (UK) »
I can't offer much help, goldie.  This one will need Bookbox's input.

There's a Latin phrase in Anglicis verbis = in English words

I suspect that is part of the first line, but I can't account for the final letter of your text.

The last part of the next entry is p(ro) simile = for the same, but I don't know what the Latin is in Walter's entry nor why the apparent p is raised as it is.

Are you sure Walter's surname is Homsley?  I see it as yom(er)sley.

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Online hallmark

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Re: Help needed please.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 01 April 19 09:59 BST (UK) »



b

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire
« Reply #3 on: Monday 01 April 19 15:24 BST (UK) »
Penny just dropped:

...Carryinge it out of the Lord(shi)p...

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire
« Reply #4 on: Monday 01 April 19 18:46 BST (UK) »
At the end of the entry, in mia = in misericordia, which means he paid a fine.

Offline goldie61

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Re: Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire
« Reply #5 on: Monday 01 April 19 21:03 BST (UK) »
Many thanks HD and Bookbox.

I now have
 'Itm p(re)sent Walter Yom(er)sley gent in Anglicis verbis for getting Stone &
Carryinge it out of the Lord(shi)p in mia'

So that would make the amounts next to their names fines and not payments - is that correct?
It sounds like they took stones, perhaps to make walls etc, that they weren't entitled to.

I'm not sure the numbers visible at the top are the date. Looks more like a page number perhaps.
The piece of paper is amongst a lot of other pieces of loose paper in a file, so difficult to pin down the date exactly.

Thanks for the enhanced image hallmark. It certainly made it easier to see.
I have some images from these rolls that are a little 'fuzzy'.
Do you know some way to focus them up a little better? - apart from taking another photograph, which is not possible I'm afraid.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire
« Reply #6 on: Monday 01 April 19 21:55 BST (UK) »
So that would make the amounts next to their names fines and not payments - is that correct?

I meant 'fine' as in a 'penalty paid', not an 'entry fine' in the manorial sense. Sorry to have been unclear.

ADDED – I think I would transcribe the first line as ...

It(e)m p(re)sent(ant) Walter(um) Yom(er)sley gen(erosum) in Anglic(is) verb(i)s for gettinge Stone &
Likewise they present Walter Yomersley, gentleman – in English words – for gettinge Stone & ...

(The phrase ‘getting stone and carrying it out of the Lordship’ was probably just a step too far for the clerk’s Latin – such ‘offences’ are often expressed in English.)

Offline goldie61

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Re: Manor of Tunstall Court Roll, Staffordshire
« Reply #7 on: Monday 01 April 19 22:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the clarification and information about the Latin Bookbox.
Interesting stuff.  :)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs