Author Topic: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery  (Read 304 times)

Offline Seesure

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India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« on: Tuesday 02 April 19 12:49 BST (UK) »
I'm hoping someone with more skill than myself can help.

I am trying to find out information on my Great Grandfather who seems to have carved out interesting life for himself.

From the records I have his full name is Michael Patrick Gillespie - born either in Ireland or Great Yarmouth. I have found via the internet a Michael Patrick Gillespie born in Ireland in 1874 - which is his birth year - the date given is 31st March 1874 to parents Patrick Gillespie and Margaret Brown (Gillespie).

However I have found a census record of a Michael P Gillespie from 1911 living in Aldershot with his mother who is named as Alice T Gillespie and a sister called Jane McGuire.  But this MP Gillespie has stated his birth town as being Great Yarmouth. But the rank listed matches with other information I have along with the age. 

My Grandfather asked the General Records Office for his father's birth certificate (Michael Patrick Gillespie), in 1948, stating that his father was born in Great Yarmouth to which they replied they could find nothing and had searched between 1870 to 1874 inc. So it appears my GF thought his father was born there.

I also know based on another letter from the War Office that they state that No. 5268 Quarter Master Sergeant Michael Patrick Gillespie served in the British Army between 1890 and 1911 in the Lincolnshire Regiment although I believe he was actually in the Leicester Regiment based on a photograph of him in dress uniform with his medals - the insignia on his collar is not a Sphinx (Lincs) but looks like the tiger of the Leics.  I've also found that he received a DCM in the Boer War having being involved in action at Ladysmith and that record states the Lincs who co-incidentally were based in India.

I have a copy of a certificate saying he married a Kathleen Burke in India on the 27th May 1905 - the following year my GF was born - Terence Patrick Gillespie 30th May 1906.

Somehow though he returns to the UK and leaves Kathleen and my grandfather in India (I think) appearing again in the 1911 census in Aldershot.

Then the next thing I can find he has married again, 29th September 1913 in Pernambuco Brazil to a Sophia Elisa De Macedo - The have a daughter Dorinha Patricia born 1st August 1914 and Elisa dies in childbirth. Dorinha then appears on a ships passenger list when she's 7 arriving in the UK with MPG but he appears to go back to Brazil on his own toing and froing until 1924 and I believe he dies in 1925/6 in Pernambuco but there is no death certificate etc. The next I can see of Dorinha is her getting married to Ivor Fredericks in Ipswich in 1939.

To add to this my aunt believes he married Sophia whilst still married to Kathleen.

So to summarise Iím hoping someone can:

1)   Confirm his date and location of birth
2)   Confirm who his parents were - Patrick and either Margaret Brown or Alice T xxxxx and any other information on this line
3)       Help with any information as to where he signed up and ended up in India
4)   Say when and where he died
5)   Help with any other information Kathleen (Burke)
6)   Say what he was doing in Brazil from 1912 to when he died
7)   Tell me did he have any further relationships and family

I know itís a big ask but he seems as though he was an interesting character and certainly had some secrets and any other information would be welcomed.

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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 14:18 BST (UK) »
Linking to his army files (both multipage) on FindMyPast which include the marriage to Kathleen and birth of Terence.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM/WO97/4934/061/001&parentid=GBM/WO97/4934/564151


https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM/WO363-4/007407564/00714&parentid=GBM/WO363-4/7407564/27/714

His mother was a schoolmistress with 17th Lancers. He attested for the Scottish Rifles in Lucknow, India in 1890 and transferred to the Leics Regiment in 1899

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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 14:24 BST (UK) »
There's an army birth in Yarmouth in 1874: Michael P Gillespie, 25th Foot, vol 1264 page 17.
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Offline Seesure

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 14:30 BST (UK) »
Thank you - that really helps clear the mystery of where he was born and likewise how he ended up in the Leics.

I really appreciate the information :)

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 14:32 BST (UK) »
I forgot to say - Welcome to Rootschat!
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Offline gortonboy

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 15:22 BST (UK) »
Gro Regimental Birth Indices (1761 To 1924)
Archive reference   REG1
Record set   British Armed Forces And Overseas Births And Baptisms
First name(s)   Jane
Sex   Female
Last name   Gillespie
Birth year   1869
Regiment   9th Foot
Type   Armed Forces
Country   South Africa
Place   King Williams Town
Page   11
Archive   
General Register Office
Record's year range   1869
Volume   859
Line number   27
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline gortonboy

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 15:26 BST (UK) »
There are two births registered in Cork......same name....same year. One is for the 25th foot.....the other is for the 9th foot.


Gro Regimental Birth Indices (1761 To 1924)
Archive reference   REG1
Record set   British Armed Forces And Overseas Births And Baptisms
First name(s)   Mary B
Sex   Female
Last name   Gillespie
Birth year   1872
Regiment   9th Foot
Type   Armed Forces
Country   Ireland
Place   Cork
Page   11
Archive   
General Register Office
Record's year range   1872
Volume   859
Line number   55
Category   Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline gortonboy

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 15:29 BST (UK) »
Father Patrick is in the 9th foot.


First name. Mary Bridget.
Last name   Gillespie
Birth year   -
Birth date   30 Apr 1872
Baptism year   1872
Baptism date   05 May 1872
Residence   9th Regt
Parish   St. Patrick's, Cork City
Alternative parish names   St. Patrick's, Cork
Diocese   Cork and Ross
County   Cork
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Patrick
Father's last name   Gillespie
Mother's first name(s)   Alice
Mother's last name   Haurahan
Repository   
National Library of Ireland
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline gortonboy

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Re: India - South Africa and Brazil Mystery
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 02 April 19 15:34 BST (UK) »
Mary Bridget
Last name   Gillespie
Marriage year   1888
Marriage date   3 Oct 1888
Spouse's first name   John
Spouse's last name   Hayes-Parks
Place   Simla
Presidency   Bengal
Groom's age   28
Bride's age   17
Groom's father's first name   Jeremiah
Groom's father's last name   -
Bride's father's first name   Patrick
Bride's father's last name   -
Catalogue description   Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Archive reference   N-1-206
Folio number   237
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk