Author Topic: Names in the Will of Richard Cripps  (Read 139 times)

Offline MattD30

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Names in the Will of Richard Cripps
« on: Friday 05 April 19 01:49 BST (UK) »
Hi

I have been reading through the Will of Richard Cripps of Rotherfield recently and making a note of the names of family members and relatives listed. This is a PCC Will and unfortunately some of the printing is faded. I am hoping someone here can help confirm my reading or interpretation of the following extracts.

In this I am hoping someone can confirm that the name of the brother mentioned in the second line is "Christopher". I am pretty certain but would appreciate a second opinion.

Matt

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Offline MattD30

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Re: Names in the Will of Richard Cripps
« Reply #1 on: Friday 05 April 19 02:01 BST (UK) »
Extracts 2

Here is the second extract from the Will of Richard Cripps of Rotherfield, Sussex.

In this extract, from the second line onwards it states

"I doe give and bequeath unto Mary Ovenden my sister the wife of James Ovenden five pounds to be paid unto her within six months next after my decease. Item I do give and bequeath unto William Ovenden, Thomas Ovenden, John Ovenden, & to Elizabeth Ovenden, and to Mary Ovenden, and to Ellenor Ovenden sons and daughters of William Ovenden and brothers and sisters unto me the said Richard by my mother"

William Ovenden was married to a widow named Elizabeth Cripps who had previously been married to John Cripps.

The Will here implies that James Ovenden was married to Mary Cripps but so far I can't find a marriage for them or a christening for Mary.

I wonder how Richard Cripps, and Mary Cripps might be related to John Cripps. It's possible they might be his siblings or children.

Matt

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Offline horselydown86

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Re: Names in the Will of Richard Cripps
« Reply #2 on: Friday 05 April 19 04:37 BST (UK) »
In relation to your first question, I agree it is Christopher Crippes.

In relation to the relationships in the Overden names, I would say that the second item tells us that Richard Crippes the testator was the son of Elizabeth Crippes who married William Ovenden.  She had a second family of six children with William Ovenden - William, Thomas, John, Elizabeth, Mary & Ellinor.

These six are half-brothers and half-sisters to Richard Crippes.

If you know that William Ovenden senior married a widow Elizabeth Crippes then (assuming the date of this event is plausible) we know that her Crippes marriage was earlier than her Ovenden marriage.

Therefore John Crippes the first husband of Elizabeth is Richard's father.

The first item - the bequest to Mary Ovenden - is far more ambiguous.

For example - Let us  say that James Ovenden was another child of William Ovenden & Elizabeth Ovenden (formerly Crippes).

James is Richard's half-brother.  He marries a woman named Mary Smith (for example).  She is Richard's sister-in-law, as the wife of his half-brother.  So he calls her his sister, but she is not of his blood at all.

Until you find the marriage of James Ovenden to this Mary, my view is that you can't conclude anything from the first of these items.

ADDED:

It has occurred to me that by the conventions of the C17th, the the wife of James Ovenden could still be Richard Crippes' "sister", even if James was a child of William Ovenden by a previous marriage and not the child of Richard's mother Elizabeth.

James is still Richard's brother-in-law in this scenario.

Offline MattD30

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Re: Names in the Will of Richard Cripps
« Reply #3 on: Friday 05 April 19 22:27 BST (UK) »
In relation to your first question, I agree it is Christopher Crippes.

In relation to the relationships in the Overden names, I would say that the second item tells us that Richard Crippes the testator was the son of Elizabeth Crippes who married William Ovenden.  She had a second family of six children with William Ovenden - William, Thomas, John, Elizabeth, Mary & Ellinor.

These six are half-brothers and half-sisters to Richard Crippes.

If you know that William Ovenden senior married a widow Elizabeth Crippes then (assuming the date of this event is plausible) we know that her Crippes marriage was earlier than her Ovenden marriage.

Therefore John Crippes the first husband of Elizabeth is Richard's father.

The first item - the bequest to Mary Ovenden - is far more ambiguous.

For example - Let us  say that James Ovenden was another child of William Ovenden & Elizabeth Ovenden (formerly Crippes).

James is Richard's half-brother.  He marries a woman named Mary Smith (for example).  She is Richard's sister-in-law, as the wife of his half-brother.  So he calls her his sister, but she is not of his blood at all.

Until you find the marriage of James Ovenden to this Mary, my view is that you can't conclude anything from the first of these items.

ADDED:

It has occurred to me that by the conventions of the C17th, the the wife of James Ovenden could still be Richard Crippes' "sister", even if James was a child of William Ovenden by a previous marriage and not the child of Richard's mother Elizabeth.

James is still Richard's brother-in-law in this scenario.

Hi there

Wow! What a lot of information, thanks for all that.

Thanks for confirming Christopher's name, I was 99% certain it was Christopher but wanted to be certain.

I'll have a look at all the Ovenden Wills and Cripps Wills I have and post an update in a while.

Matt

Offline MattD30

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Re: Names in the Will of Richard Cripps
« Reply #4 on: Friday 05 April 19 23:49 BST (UK) »
UPDATE

Hi again

I had to post this in two pieces as there were too many characters for one post lol! I hope the following makes sense.

Regarding William Ovenden and Elizabeth Cripps, both marriages took place by Licence which is useful. The first marriage took place between John Crippes of Rotherfield (spelt Retherfield) and Elizabeth Wicken (of Hartfield) in May 1620/21

John Crippes of Retherfield, yeoman, & Elizabeth Wicken of Hartfield, maiden: sureties, said John Crippes and Thomas Weston of Retherfield, yeoman (Hartfield). 15 January 1620/1. [Licence Date] [Source: Sussex Marriage Licences Recorded in the Consistory of the Bishop of Chichester for the Archdeaconry of Lewes, August 1586 To March 1642/43 by Edwin H.W. Dunkin, F.S.A, Sussex Record Society, 1901, page 123]

John died in 1629 and as you can see, his Will quite interesting. Also several Wills of other members of the Ovenden family were witnessed by "Cripps" so possibly these were related too.

So far I can't find John's burial, however his Will was dated 9 January 1629, and proved in February 1629 so I guess he died between those dates.

Elizabeth's marriage to William Ovenden took place in 1631 in Lewes.

William Ovenden of Retherfield, yeoman, & Elizabeth Cripps of same, widow: sureties, said William Ovenden and William Ovenden, senior, of same, yeoman (St Mary Westout, Lewes). 2 May 1631 [Licence Date] [Source: Sussex Marriage Licences Recorded in the Consistory of the Bishop of Chichester for the Archdeaconry of Lewes, August 1586 To March 1642/43 by Edwin H.W. Dunkin, F.S.A, Sussex Record Society, 1901, page 189]

William and James Ovenden were the children of William and Elinor Ovenden. William was christened in Rotherfield in October 1605 and his brother James was christened in Rotherfield in December 1614. Luckily for me all these people left Wills which is useful in putting the tree together.

William Ovenden snr died in 1639 leaving a Will in which he names all his children including William and James. He made Elinor his Executrix.

Elinor died in 1647 and in her Will she describes herself as the widow of William Ovenden and names all her children including William and James.

As well as naming both William and James in the Wills, both William and Elinor name their daughter Alice and Elinor refers to her as "my daughter Alice now the wife of Edmund Holmsbye".

James Ovenden died in 1682 and in his Will he mentions his daughter Elizabeth who he described as "my daughter Elizabeth now the wife of James Pyke". Elizabeth was christened in 1652 and married James Pyke (also spelt "Pike" in some records) in 1677. Their daughter, Ellen was christened in 1691 and she married William Ovenden in 1709. William was christened in 1683 and was the great-grandson of William Ovenden and Elizabeth Cripps (nee Wicken). I hope that's not confusing! The Ovenden family is quite big and there are a lot of children in each generation!!

James Ovenden's Will was witnessed by a "Robert Cripps" but I don't know who he is yet, although it is probably a relation.

I also have the 1663 Will of William and Ellinor's son William (James Ovenden's nephew) who (like James) is my direct ancestor. In his Will this William (it gets very confusing when everyone is called William - at least it's not John Smith though!) mentions the following people:

"my son in lawe John Cripps"

"Martha Cripps the eldest daughter of my said son in law John Cripps"

"John Cripps the son of my said son in law John Cripps"

and

"his brother Christopher Cripps"

The Will was witnessed by William's sister Alice Holmsbye, and her husband Edmund was named as one of the Overseers (along with William's brother Thomas).

There were obviously close links between the Cripps and Ovenden families but perhaps they were closer than I thought.

I've uncovered a few more Cripps christenings and marriages in Rotherfield today and I think I can now draw up a basic tree for them. I've found the christening of Richard's daughter Anne, but so far I can't find his christening. Christopher Cripps was christened in Rotherfield in 1627 and was the son of John Cripps and Elizabeth (nee Wicken).

As mentioned, John died in 1629 leaving a Will and in this he names his son Christopher, his brother William Cripps, his wife Elizabeth (who he describes as being "now with child"), his son John, his daughter Marie Cripps, and his kinsman Thomas Cripps. It looks, from the reading of the Will, that Christopher was the oldest son. Given that Elizabeth was "with child" when the Will was written, it might be that that child was Richard.

The Overseers of this Will were "John Young of Hartfield, the elder" and "Edward Hilder of Rotherfield" who was John's brother in law.

It looks like John and William Cripps were the sons of another Christopher Cripps who died in 1621 and also left a Will in which he names both of them, as well as his wife Catherine.

I'll end there as this might take two or three readings lol! If it helps I can post some basic transcripst of extracts from all the Wills which name the relevent people.

Thanks again for the help in untangling this lot. Now I'll try to put the Cripps together!

Matt