Author Topic: Latin probate 1640  (Read 336 times)

Offline arthurk

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 07 April 19 19:34 BST (UK) »
It's at FamilySearch (will on this page, inventory the next):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-67W7-MN5?i=530

Lots of relations named, which might help to confirm his identity and what was going on with the surname variants. Note that the will has it as Overton, so maybe it was the executor(s) who preferred Orton.

The document we've been deciphering looks like an entry in the calendar, and possibly the only record of the probate.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 07 April 19 20:44 BST (UK) »
Excellent find, arthurk, well done! This will surely help goldie61 sort out the various Orton family members.

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Offline goldie61

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 07 April 19 21:19 BST (UK) »
Bookbox and arthurk.
Thank you for all your beavering on my behalf whilst I've been asleep at this end of the world!  :)

I had not considered 'Overton' as an alternative to Orton, but a great idea.

I shall go and look at the 1640 will and see if it all becomes clear!



Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline goldie61

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 09 April 19 06:06 BST (UK) »
Well that didn't make things any clearer at all!
Although Edge and Broxton are only a few miles apart, there doesn't seem to be any cross-over of names in these two wills.
One would have thought there would be some relationship somewhere down (or up) the line.
More delving to do.

Although not making any difference to the people in the wills, do you know what this phrase might be in the preamble?
through the mirrites of Jesus Christ my saviour it shalbe Received into the Joyes
of heaven, when he shall caule for it out of his tabernacle of ?


Not a phrase I've come across before. Perhaps 'Glory?'
Many thanks
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline goldie61

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 09 April 19 06:19 BST (UK) »
The National Archives seem to transcribe the name as 'Urian".
I wonder if they now something we don't?  :)

No less than 3 men named 'Urian' in this document form 1471.
So quite a popular name at that time.

Reference:    DCH/C/341

Description:   
MORTGAGE to secure 33/4 by Urian de Cawreden to William Kereson, of a messuage in which William Overton now dwells with lands which the said William holds of the said Urian in the township of MALPASSE.
 
Witnesses: Urian Davinport, rector of a moiety of the church of Malpas, Randle son of Urian Brereton and Humphrey Brereton.
 
Given at Malpas, 18. Apr. 147
1.

I know the Brereton family were knights, and served as grooms of the kings chamber later on.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 09 April 19 06:23 BST (UK) »
Can we see the next line, please.

I think it begins with:  C-l-e

See Christ & Church.

Also:  ..this tabarnacle...

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 09 April 19 06:28 BST (UK) »
A phrase used in Christianity:  Tabernacle of Clay

ADDED:

All the references from an internet search point to the LDS Church.

Offline goldie61

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 09 April 19 07:43 BST (UK) »
Hi HD
Here is the next line - it starts a new bequest -
Itm I bequeth my bodye to be buried........

I thought it was a 'Cl' at the beginning - but can't see what the rest might be. I can't really see 'Clay' - can you?
The 's' at the end of 'Malpas' confuses it further.

This will is from 1640.

Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline arthurk

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 09 April 19 17:13 BST (UK) »
I think it could be this tabarnacle of clea.

It's a fairly standard biblical analogy to refer to the human body as made of clay, and this could be a non-standard spelling, of which there seem to be a few. Note that it's this rather than his, meaning it refers to something earthly rather than heavenly.

(According to Joseph Wright's Dialect Dictionary, 'clea' is also found in Cheshire as a variant of 'clee', which is itself a variant of 'claw'. Claw wouldn't make sense here, but the similarity might have given rise to some confusion over spelling.)

Then I think the next line is:
Ite: I bequeath my Bodye to be Buried in the Churchyard of Malpas in
in some Convenient place ther:

(repeated 'in' as per the original)
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk