Author Topic: Latin probate 1640  (Read 375 times)

Offline goldie61

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Latin probate 1640
« on: Sunday 07 April 19 06:25 BST (UK) »
I'd appreciate it if anybody can see any other names in here apart from 'Vrian Orton'. The name carries on through several generations, and I've seen it sometimes transcribed as 'Vrian', and sometime 'Urian', so I really don't know what the name would have been. Neither of them sound terribly easy.
Difficult when 'U' and 'V' were the same letter in those days!

Thanks very much
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

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Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 07 April 19 10:14 BST (UK) »
No-one else is named in this extract. Administration was granted to the executor named in the will, who was sworn in person.

The image on FindMyPast is much clearer. The testator's first name is transcribed there as Brian, but that's not what's written. It looks like U/Vriani, which in English would give U/Vrian, as you've said. I wonder if that translates into Brian? I haven't come across it before, and it's not listed in Trice Martin.

ADDED - Vrianus seems to be a name from Arthurian legend ...
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/sacred.htm

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Offline goldie61

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 07 April 19 11:16 BST (UK) »
Many thanks Bookbox, and the link to Arthurian legend.

I forgot to ask - does it give a place of residence for Vrian?

There is a nuncupative 'will' for a Vrian Orton of Broxton (near Tattenhall in Cheshire), in 1633 with no executor specifically mentioned. Also an inventory for it taken April 1633.
I'm unsure if this is going to be the same person. It is a very unusual name.
Perhaps the probate was not decided until 1640 for some reason.

Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 07 April 19 11:23 BST (UK) »
Looks to me like he was of Edge de flint (start of line 2), but I haven't checked to see if such a place existed in Flint.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 07 April 19 11:36 BST (UK) »
Sorry, just realised it's ... de Edge defunct(i) = of Edge, deceased. So not Flint at all. Duh :-[

Offline arthurk

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 07 April 19 14:06 BST (UK) »
There is a nuncupative 'will' for a Vrian Orton of Broxton (near Tattenhall in Cheshire), in 1633 with no executor specifically mentioned. Also an inventory for it taken April 1633.

Edge and Broxton are townships in the parish of Malpas - both some distance from Malpas itself and in the same direction, possibly adjacent.

There's a burial in Malpas on 5 April 1633 which seems to match the above will - Vrian(?) Orton of Broxton. The PR is faint but possibly improvable, but the BT is much clearer.

The fact that there's some record of the 1633 nuncupative will and inventory suggests that it went to probate. If further assets came to light there could have been a further probate in 1640, though if that were so, would there be some reference to this in the document we're working on?

On the other hand, FamilySearch offers two children of Urian Orton baptised in Malpas in 1662 and 1669/70, which suggests the name was being passed down the family and another one might have died in 1640. I haven't checked the originals for these two baptisms, though it might not be possible to tell if they have Urian or Vrian. (FS also have a few 17th century baptisms in other parts of Cheshire where the child is Urian/Vrian, and they too seem a bit uncertain which it is.)
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

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Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 07 April 19 14:34 BST (UK) »
The fact that there's some record of the 1633 nuncupative will and inventory suggests that it went to probate. If further assets came to light there could have been a further probate in 1640, though if that were so, would there be some reference to this in the document we're working on?

I was wondering that too. The puzzle is that the 1640 probate refers to a named executor, but there isnít one in the 1633 nuncupative will (as shown online). If the 1640 probate is not for the 1633 will, where is the other will, with named executor, that went to probate in that year?

For what it's worth, I've transcribed the 1640 probate below. Iím not certain if itís a male or female executor/executrix, because the endings for the key Latin words (exec... and iurat...) are abbreviated too heavily to tell.

xxvjto No(vem)bris 1640
Testam(en)tu(m) cum Inven(tario) bonoru(m) Vriani Orton nup(er) dum vixit
de Edge defunct(i) p(ro)bat(um) &c Comissaq(ue) fuit adm(inist)racio bonor(um)
prefat(i)[?] defunct(i) Exec(utori[?]) in eod(em) no(m)i(n)at(o[?]) primitus de bene &c
p(er)sonaliter iurat(o[?]) Salvo &c

26 November 1640
The will with inventory of the goods of Vrian Orton, lately whilst living of Edge, deceased, was proved etc.; and administration of the goods of the aforesaid[?] deceased was granted to the executor named in the same, who was first sworn in person to well [and faithfully] etc.; saving [the rights of whomsoever] etc.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 07 April 19 17:21 BST (UK) »
Burial in Malpas 20 July 1640: Urian Overton of Malpas

Surely the same person? Bear in mind dialect forms of over including ower, and the poetic o'er, and it's easy to see how Overton and Orton could be variants of the same surname.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin probate 1640
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 07 April 19 17:50 BST (UK) »
Burial in Malpas 20 July 1640: Urian Overton of Malpas

Surely the same person? Bear in mind dialect forms of over including ower, and the poetic o'er, and it's easy to see how Overton and Orton could be variants of the same surname.

Good thinking. In support of your theory, there is a Cheshire probate document of 1635 for a Henry Overton alias Orton, of Bunbury.

It would be good to find a will and inventory (as referenced in the probate) for this Urian Overton buried in Malpas in 1640.