Author Topic: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.  (Read 730 times)

Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 12:59 BST (UK) »
Try to google Doctor Gauterís  report.
It mainly concerns Angel Meadow, but that is on the West side of Central Manchester.
Rochdale Rd and then Oldham Rd and you get to the area where Prussia St is situated,or was.Ancoats/ Miles Platting.
Beswick St is further East ,near Ashton New Road.Beswick area.
All were very poor areas without any sanitation or clean drinking water.
There is a dedicated section at Manchester  Central Library to The Cholera epidemics..
Also John Rylandís Library.
Do let us know if you find out what you want.
Viktoria.

The conditions in Heptonstall were no better than Manchester. There is a vivid account of conditions in the area by George Crabtree written in the 1830s. It's called something like 'A Tour of Calder Dale [Calderdale] Letter to Richard Oastler'. Well worth a read for anyone who has ancestors from Heptonstall.  I can post a link if the OP is interested. It's available free online

Heptonstall has quite good parish records, very detailed at certain times. The St Thomas a' Becket registers are available on ancestry I believe.

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Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 13:07 BST (UK) »
...re above post

The short book I mention is called 'Brief Description of a Tour Through Calder Dale' 1833 - "Being A Letter to Richard Oastler, surnamed by Baines, 'King of the Factory Children,' By George Crabtree, an Operative."

If you go on this website below and search the word Oastler, the link to the book will come up in the search result. 

https://www.calderdale.gov.uk/wtw/

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Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 13:29 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find any information about Sarah Greenwood, baptised 1824 Heptonstall, parents Henry and Fanny Greenwood.  Siblings Thomas, Stephen (died infancy), Hiram, Jane and Mary.

She is on the 1841 census with her parents and siblings in Silk Street, Manchester.  On the 1841 census the ages are wrong, she is shown to be 15 like her brother Hiram, whose baptism was for 1820 in Heptonstall.  All the siblings except Mary were baptised in Heptonstall.  Mary was born in Manchester, baptised in 1830.

Her father Henry died in 1847 at Henry Street, Manchester.  On the April 1851 census, her mother Fanny and sister Mary are living in a lodging house in Beswick Street, Manchester.  Her other sister Jane married in February 1851, in Manchester, to Joseph Smith, and they both give their address as Beswick Street on their marriage record.

Her brother Thomas married in 1846 and lived in Angel Street on the 1851 census, with his wife, children and wife's siblings.  Her brother Hiram married Mary Stanfield in 1850, and he died in 1855, can't find him on the 1851 census either; Mary Stanfield remarried Isaac Wakeling but I can't find them on censuses.

I can't find Sarah.  She is named as Sarah on the 1841 census, but Sally on her Heptonstall baptism.  Maybe she returned to family in Heptonstall, but I can't find her on the 1851 census.  Her grandmother in Heptonstall was Mary Oddie or Oddy, Fanny's mother Mary Greenwood had Fanny by reputed father David Wilcock, and then later married John Oddie and had several children.  Mary Oddie died in 1861.

As a general question, did people make a regular journey to see family at distances like Manchester to Heptonstall?  Obviously there is no record of journeys made.  How would people travel between Manchester and Heptonstall in the mid nineteenth century?  By train?  Canal?  Horse and coach?

Another general question, what impact would their father Henry Greenwood's death have had on the family.  In 1847, his youngest child Mary was 17, and eldest Thomas was 30.  Henry's job was Carder/Overlooker, so maybe a bit better paid than many.  His family seem to have been mostly together up to the time he died.

Yes people did move between the West Riding of Yorkshire and Lancashire for work and to visit, both ways. The areas are very similar in their industrial history, populations and types of occupation. I expect they would have walked much of the time. There would have been cheap inns and lodgings along the way.

Manchester isn't far from Heptonstall (24 miles). I've seen accounts (late 1700s) of people walking to Halifax from Heptonstall and back again in day (a round trip of about 17 miles), this was just to buy some tools or certain other items. They also had time to stop at an inn for a 'small beer' and some kind of sandwich

I don't think an overlooker would have earned much more than a weaver or spinner. An overlooker would have been more like a factory line manager. So probably quite a few of them in each industrial mill.

Offline Althea7

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 18 May 19 22:20 BST (UK) »
Regarding marriage between William Casson and Sarah Greenwood are following births.
Fanny Casson b1849 mmn Greenwood.
Elizabeth b1851 mmn Greenwood.
Hannah 1853
Death for a Sarah Casson aged 31 in 1858
An Elizabeth Casson born 1851 Manchester can be found with William Casson and  wife Margaret in stockport

I found the births for Fanny, Elizabeth and Hannah Casson on the GRO index, all have mother's maiden surname Greenwood.

Fanny born 1849 M quarter Manchester, died 1849 J quarter Manchester age 0.  If I have the right person.  Might explain why she isn't on the 1861 census.

On the 1861 census Elizabeth is age 10, living with father William, (step?)mother Margaret and sibling Hannah, in Manchester/Stockport.

The only possible information I can find for this family after that anywhere is the 1870 United States Federal Census for Illinois has William Casson age 44, wife Margaret age 34, and daughters Elizabeth 19 and Alice 16.  All born in England.

I couldn't find the marriage between William Casson and Margaret, to see if her age is approximately that shown on the 1870 US census.

That 1870 US Federal Census I found on familysearch.org, and looked at the original document, and wonder if the name Alice was mistranscribed as the handwriting is unclear.  Could she be Hannah?

I could be totally wrong, but none of this family are on any English censuses after 1861, though I haven't found them on any passenger lists either.  They would most likely have sailed from Liverpool to the USA?

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 18 May 19 23:11 BST (UK) »
A reason for possible emigration may have been the Lancashire Cotton Famine.

Offline Althea7

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 19 May 19 00:06 BST (UK) »
A reason for possible emigration may have been the Lancashire Cotton Famine.

That is interesting, thanks.  The Wikipedia article says many people got cut price travel to New York.  William Casson is described as a Machinist on the 1870 US census for Illinois.

My Manchester ancestors seemed too poor to emigrate to America, but that could explain it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Cotton_Famine

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 19 May 19 00:40 BST (UK) »
A reason for possible emigration may have been the Lancashire Cotton Famine.

That is interesting, thanks.  The Wikipedia article says many people got cut price travel to New York.  William Casson is described as a Machinist on the 1870 US census for Illinois.

My Manchester ancestors seemed too poor to emigrate to America, but that could explain it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Cotton_Famine
" Ö a wave of emigration stimulated by special agencies Ö". It says steamship companies cut fares. An example was £3 15s 6d steerage to New York.
When looking at my family on 1939 Register I was surprised to see that the father of an aunt by marriage was born in New York in the late 1860s. Intrigued I investigated. My aunt's grandparents were born in Ireland. They had 2 sons in New York then it was back across the ocean to Lancashire where they stayed. They worked in mills.

Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 19 May 19 01:58 BST (UK) »
What are the occupations on the census?
Are the family found on the census in Stockport (Cheshire) or Manchester (Lancashire) or both?

'Lancashire Cotton Famine' is a bit of a misnomer, as probably the worst hit county was Cheshire, though it did affect both regions badly and even beyond

Offline Althea7

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Re: Sarah Greenwood, born 1824 Heptonstall, lived Manchester Silk Street 1841.
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 19 May 19 11:07 BST (UK) »
What are the occupations on the census?
Are the family found on the census in Stockport (Cheshire) or Manchester (Lancashire) or both?

'Lancashire Cotton Famine' is a bit of a misnomer, as probably the worst hit county was Cheshire, though it did affect both regions badly and even beyond

The family are found on the census in Manchester both 1851 and 1861.  William Casson was born in Stockport.  He married Sarah Greenwood in Manchester (cathedral) in 1846.  Familysearch isn't showing details at the moment so I can't find the occupations on these censuses.  The 1870 US census is showing William Casson as a Machinist, if it is the same person.