Author Topic: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?  (Read 1285 times)

Offline jomcd967

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Hi all you brilliant people,

I'm hoping that one of you can help track down my missing gggrandfather in 1861?

What I have so far.....
John Saunders married Jane Hughes at Tredegar in 1876 (both single, neither signed), his father was given as William Saunders, a collier.
I have all relevant records for John & Jane from this point forward and John gives his POB as variously Trevethin, Pontypool & Abersychan.

All of which lead me to the b.c. for John Saunders b1854 Garndiffaith, s/o William Saunders , a labourer & Ann Pugh.

So we move to William & Ann....

William Pugh, full age, bachelor, collier and Ann Pugh, full age, spinster, both of Garndiffaith, married 1840 in Trevethin. (Neither signed).

1841 Garndiffaith
William Saunders 35 Haulier BIC
Anne Saunders 25  NBIC
Thomas Saunders 4 BIC
William Saunders 4mths  (Reg. MMN Pugh)

1851 Garndiffaith
William Saunders 46 Haulier b. Monmouthshire
Ann Saunders 35 wife  b. Montgomeryshire
Thomas Saunders 13 miner b. Mon
William Saunders 10 Scholar b. Mon
John Saunders 2 at home b. Trevethin Mon (Reg. MMN Pugh)

1861 - Cant find any of them!!!!

Births registered in Pontypool with MMN Pugh:
William 1840
Mary 1843 (No death record found)
John 1848 (died 1853)
Mary 1851 (died 1853)
John 1854 - my missing gggrandfather.

In 1871 John is with older brother William - no sign of parents or elder brother Thomas???

Speaking of Thomas... the marriage of William & Ann has them as bachelor & spinster....Thomas appears to have been born 3 years prior to their marriage....I am unable to find a birth record for him (either under Saunders or Pugh)....he is the only problem with me being 100% certain that this is GGGrandfathers parents/siblings......finding John in 1861 with a parent...or grandparent....or brother....or anyone would be a fabulous help.

Fingers crossed that you geniuses will be able to track down this elusive family, i really appreciate any suggestions given.

Cheers Jo  :)

Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 16 April 19 08:08 BST (UK) »
Have you located Garndiffaith in 1861  :-\

It is always helpful when giving census information if you include the reference numbers, especially in Wales  ;D
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 16 April 19 08:40 BST (UK) »
Not found 1861   ???

1851 census gives surname SANDERS

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTL-VL8


Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 16 April 19 09:44 BST (UK) »
Have you located Garndiffaith in 1861  :-\

It is always helpful when giving census information if you include the reference numbers, especially in Wales  ;D

I've just taken a quick look through but I can't spot them  ???

some details that might help others looking

1861 census ref for Garndiffath Trevethin
RG9 / 4009  page 1 ends 26

Garndiffath page 25
Thomas Pritchard 45 Haullier
Mercy 31
Garndiffath page 26
Thomas Pritchard son 11 Haullier
Ro? 9
William 7
George 1
James Driscoll lodger haulier
next address Varteg page 26
Hannah Smith W 52 Beer House Keeper


In 1871 John is with older brother William - no sign of parents or elder brother Thomas???


Could you give full details of this census please

Offline osprey

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Re: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 16 April 19 10:10 BST (UK) »
think 1871 is this one

New Pits near Tredegar,Uchlawrcoed, Bedwellty RG10/5315 folio 63 pg 4
William Saunders head mar 31 miner b. Trevethyn, Mon
Mary Ann wife 22 b. Merthyr, Glam
John brother 16 miner b. Trevethyn, Mon
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 16 April 19 10:22 BST (UK) »
marriage in Penmain church in the parish of Mynyddyslwyn 31 July 1869 for
William Saunders full age collier Tredegar, father William haulier &
Mary Ann Rees full age Tredegar, father Benjamin Rees lampman
witnesses Thomas Pugh & James Davies all marked

John married in same church 21 Oct 1876 to Jane Hughes. Both marriages indexed as Chepstow on FindMyPast, but image shows otherwise.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 16 April 19 12:25 BST (UK) »
Sorry just back from some amazing Greek food....

Yes, that is William in 1871 with Mary Ann & John. I believe that William is killed in a mining accident in 1872 and Mary Ann remarries in 1878, they donít appear to have had any children so that is a dead end....

Apologies on not giving the reference for the Garndiffaith census, Iím not actually sure how to do that, but will find out and rectify next time.

So....I think I have ruled out all possible deaths for William Snr and Ann after Johns birth in 1864, Iíve also looked at nearly every possible remarriage for Ann and.....nothing!

They just disappear so any fresh eyes and perspectives are greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Jo  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline osprey

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Re: Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 16 April 19 12:41 BST (UK) »
the census ref is usually on the index page of the entry and should be RGx/xxx folio no page no for 1861 - 1901 and for 1841 & 1851 starts HO107.

William & John are in Bedwellty registration district on the 1871 so death for parents could be there. Possible for the younger William boarding in Panteague in 1861 if the place of birth has been dittoed in error, not uncommon. RG9/4010 folio 40 pg 23.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline CaroleW

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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk