Author Topic: Death of Esther Jones, 1902  (Read 468 times)

Offline bbart

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 20 April 19 22:58 BST (UK) »
RMS Orissa  sailed from Valparaiso (Chile) to Liverpool  I can't find the date on the actual record, but the index states June 1902

David, 32 yr old farmer, Silla 24 yr,  Esther inf GIRL 6 mo.  David and Silla are UK (England) citizens, Esther is a Foreigner.
They boarded the ship at Port Madryn.

November
June 1902:
Outgoing UK passenger list to Canada, Esther is an inf GIRL

Incoming Canada passenger list, as previously mentioned, has Esther as "Infant", no gender specified.

So, I'm thinking, short of them switching babies  :o, the death registration/burial record should have read "daughter of David", not David.  Perhaps the cemetery switched the female to male, because they saw the name David, and thought it was an error.

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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 20 April 19 23:10 BST (UK) »
Thanks bbart, Where did you find the Orissa passengers? I just found a passage saying it left Port Madryn on 15 May.

What is the list from November 1902? They were in Canada in June. 

No other infant Jones on the Numidian list i have seen from Liverpool so it surely must be her, and as you say, daughter of David.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

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Offline polarbear

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 20 April 19 23:15 BST (UK) »
I think you are probably correct bbart. The passenger manifests are surely correct. Then you have probably exhausted and very distraught parents talking to authorities in a strange country and this perhaps ended in a miscommunication of what name belonged to whom. Can't imagine the amount of stress David and Celia would have experienced under the circumstances.

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British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline bbart

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 20 April 19 23:25 BST (UK) »
What is the list from November 1902? They were in Canada in June. 

I blame the lack of coffee.  Yes, it was June! (I will amend the first post)
The Orissa list was on Anc. (UK inbound series)

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 20 April 19 23:34 BST (UK) »
What is the list from November 1902? They were in Canada in June. 

I blame the lack of coffee.  Yes, it was June! (I will amend the first post)
The Orissa list was on Anc. (UK inbound series)

Great thanks. Hope you have had time to enjoy your coffee now. Many thanks for your help on this. You too polarbear and dbree.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline bbart

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 20 April 19 23:47 BST (UK) »
I recall you looking earlier for the burials of David Price Jones and wife, so I'm just throwing this out there in case you didn't run into it:

While looking at the passenger lists, I saw one for David Price Jones, wife Silla, and son, Morris, 6 years old, born England, sailing Liverpool to Canada in July 1909.  (I don't recall you mentioning Morris, so just in case you didn't know about him..!)

Edit: seems he was actually born in Saskatchewan, Canada.

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 21 April 19 08:17 BST (UK) »
Hi bbart, thanks, yes we know about Morris (1903-1986), and his sister Alice (1910-2010). Actually in touch with a couple of their grandchildren. Just knew nothing about what happened to Esther, and a little boy Stephen, born in Saskatchewan in 1905 and on the 1906 census, but not on the 1909 journey. The journey was a puzzle, only having the Liverpool-Quebec leg again, had they visited relatives in the UK?

Again the newly discovered relative threw some light on things, saying Stephen had apparently fallen into a creek and drowned while running across a bridge to show his grandparents the new pants his mother had made him. As his grandparents were in Patagonia they must have retuned there, between 1906 and 1909. And then went back to Canada.

Checking all the info on the family again, i realised that Cecilia’s obituary (though she was then known as Sillia) referred to her being in poor health for nearly 25 years. She died in 1936 so the effects of losing 2 young children, and moving twice to a new country, was enormous.

Thanks again for taking an interest.

Deirdre
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline dbree

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 21 April 19 13:27 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Not sure who Miss S. Jones (adult, single) is,

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, arriving Avonmouth, England Jan. 16, 1909 from Wellington and Montevideo, on the ship Rippingham Grange

Port of Embarkation Montevideo, nationality Welsh
Mr. D.P. Jones, farmer, male, adult (12 and up), accompanied by husband/wife
Mrs. S. Jones, adult, female, "      "
Miss S. Jones, adult, female, single or unaccompanied by husband/wife
Master Maurice Jones, male, child (between 1 and 12)

DB

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Death of Esther Jones, 1902
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 21 April 19 14:14 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Not sure who Miss S. Jones (adult, single) is,

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, arriving Avonmouth, England Jan. 16, 1909 from Wellington and Montevideo, on the ship Rippingham Grange

Port of Embarkation Montevideo, nationality Welsh
Mr. D.P. Jones, farmer, male, adult (12 and up), accompanied by husband/wife
Mrs. S. Jones, adult, female, "      "
Miss S. Jones, adult, female, single or unaccompanied by husband/wife
Master Maurice Jones, male, child (between 1 and 12)

DB

Wow, nor me 😀 I was looking for that journey this morning but couldn’t find it. Tried David and Morris (!!). Will have a look again at the family but I wasn’t expecting another member......
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....