John Dobson Ireland to Antigua 1840

[Sueengland]

Hello

Looking for John Dobson who was a Yorkshire soldier who went to Ireland, married a Butler and they had a daughter called alice jane dobson. John and wife had eloped to Antigua and they then sailed across to Grenada in 1865.  Any help would be appreciated. John's wife died shortly after arrival in Grenada and was buried on Baillie's Bacolet Estate.

[Maiden Stone]

Hello and welcome to RootsChat.
1840 - was this year of John's birth or of the move to Antigua?
 Do you know when and where Alice Jane Dobson was born and when & where parents married?
Was Alice the only known child of the marriage?
Was John still in the army when he went to Antigua and Grenada?
Do you know what happened to John and to Alice after 1865?
Have you found any of them on a census?

[Sueengland]

Hello

Thank you!  The history is inaccurate. John Dobson, a Yorkshire soldier, fought in The Battle of Vinegar Hill. This was in 1798. He married a McNamara first wife. His second wife was a Butler. The Butlers were well known in Ireland and the father Butler did not approve of the marriage as John Dobson was not Catholic. I think the marriages were in Limerick and that when the couple eloped to Antigua the wife was very young. Whilst in Antigua they entertained people at their house on Jolly Hill. There is an entertaining Dobson from Yorkshire who went by the stage name of Duval and who perforned vaudeville like acts, but i havent been able to make a connection with that line. The second wife was called Mary Jane Dobson and the child Alice Jane Dobson. I think she was born in Ireland. They went as a family to Grenada in 1865. I dont think John was in the Army when eloping to Antigua. John married a Mrs Baynes in Grenada and died soon after. Alice Jane Dobson married Thomas Bishop (my gg grandfather from Somerset) who already had 5 girls by his first wife who had died approx 1880. Haven't found any of the Dobsons on any census ... only a reference to Alice Jane Bishop in a Grenada handbook (1902 i think).

[Maiden Stone]

Thanks for that information.
To recap:
John Dobson fought at the Battle of Vinegar Hill in 1798 (1798 Rising in Ireland). He must have been in his teens at least or possibly older, so probably born no later than early 1780s. N.B. British Army had boy soldiers, some of whom were very young, e.g. drummer boys. Some were "children of the regiment", possibly orphans. There was also a scheme to put orphan boys into the army so that they weren't a burden on the parish. There are threads on RootsChat about young soldiers.
John's 1st wife had surname McNamara. John's 2nd wife was Mary Jane Butler. Mary Jane was 'very young'. Mary Jane's family disapproved of the match. One or both of these weddings may have happened in Limerick. (Where does the suggestion of Limerick come from?)
John & Mary Jane had a daughter, Alice Jane Dobson, who may have been born in Ireland. (Any idea when?)
John and Mary Jane ( and possibly daughter Alice, if she was already born) went to Antigua. (Did this happen in 1840?)
The family moved to Grenada in 1865. Mary Jane died soon after. (Is there a record or death notice in a newspaper?)
John Dobson married a woman called Mrs Baynes in Grenada . (Is there a record of this marriage? If so what information about John does it contain?)
John Dobson died soon after his marriage to Mrs Baynes. (Is there a death record or notice? By my reckoning John would have been over 80.)
Alice Jane Dobson married widower Thomas Bishop. (When & where? Was he her 1st husband? Were there any children of this marriage?)

Some additional questions:
Were there any other children of either of John Dobson's marriages?
How did John make a living in Antigua and Grenada? "Whilst in Antigua they entertained people at their house on Jolly Hill." Is there a report of this?
When & where did Alice die?
'The Butlers were well known in Ireland'. Have you identified a particular Butler family?
 

[Maiden Stone]

Do you know John Dobson's regiment and have you found any military records for him?
I thought there should be a list of regiments which took part at Vinegar Hill. There's a partial list here:
www.theminiaturespage.com/board/msg.mv?id=205891 in answer to a question about the makeup of the British forces.
There's a museum at Enniscorthy.
Edit. link doesn't work. googling British forces at Vinegar Hill miniatures page finds it.

[Sueengland]

Thank you Maiden Stone. Info came from handwritten notes of Irvin Bishop, a great grandson of Thomas Bishop who was born in Grenada in 1917 and died in 1995 in Greenwich, London. Alice Jane Dobson

1.   Born in Ireland in the county of Limerick.
2.   Daughter of John Dobson, an English soldier who came with the English Army from Yorkshire and is known to have taken part in the Battle of Vinegar Hill (1798) – a lifetime boast of his in his later life through the West Indies.
3.   John Dobson married twice in Ireland:
a.   First to Linda McNamara and had one son called Johnny; and
b.   Secondly to Mary Butler, an Irish girl whose father was of some means who objected strongly to the marriage of his only daughter to the English soldier of fortune and of the Protestant faith (Alice Jane of refined nature).
4.   John Dobson, with wife and child of the same name, Alice Jane, fled Ireland for the island of Antigua where there were many English families at the time and a stronghold of the Anglican faith in the West Indies.
5.   Before leaving the county of Limerick he privately arranged with a friend to send him out the ‘Limerick Free Press’, copies of which were sent to him for years afterwards to the West Indies.
6.   Alice Jane Dobson, (nee Butler), was known and admired for her red, red hair and singing voice to which John Dobson added a sweet baritone to the delight of all who heard them which made them very popular among the people of Antigua, especially those of the upper classes.
7.   Unfortunately, John Dobson with the usual imprudence of the Irish, went and rented the lovely big house on the island known as Jolly Hill where he and his wife hoped to entertain paying guests with their acting and singing as the island did not have many concert halls at the time.
8.   The venture failed. Dobson was left literally penniless with a wife and child of the upper class. Fortunately, a friend (Baillie) who had a big plantation called Bacolet on the island of Grenada asked him to go and take charge of it.
9.   The Dobsons of man, wife and child left Antigua for Grenada in 1865 on a sailing ship going to St George’s, Grenada. On the way the ship met up with one of those rainstorms for which that part of the world is famous.
10.   The Dobson family got wet for days running. When they reached Grenada and went onto the plantation the delicate wife caught a horrible cold. Despite all that the servants did to combat the cold, Alice Jane died. John Dobson was besides himself with grief for his young wife. He had her buried at the foot of the steps of the plantation house so that she should be always near to him and his little daughter.
11.   The grave stayed there with its marble tag on with the wife’s name and country of birth which were printed as a constant reminder through the change of owners.

To answer the other questions:
Do not know when Alice Jane Dobson born - but all notes point to it happening in Limerick.
I cannot find any reference to a Dobson family on the passenger lists to Antigua but am assuming between 1855-1965??
No record of Mary Jane's death or of the burial place at Bacolet or death notice.
John's marriage to Mrs Bayne's is in Irvin's notes. Mrs Baynes and John Dobson had a son called Richard. After John died Mrs Bayne and Richard eventually returned to the UK and Alice Jane never saw her half brother again. I do have a Grenada Births & Baptisms record of a birth in Grenada to Sarah and John Dobson on 1 Nov 1879.
Alice Jane Dobson married Thomas Bishop (her first husband) in St Andrew's Grenville Grenada (again from Irvin's notes). No record of Thomas' death but believed about 1888. There were three children of Alice and Thomas' marriage - Archie Gerald Wells Bishop, Florence Bishop and Tommy Bishop. After Thomas died Alice married a Mr McMillan. There is a reference on Grenadian Girl Word Press to Archie Gerald Wells Bishop (the son) probating the will of Alice Jane McMillan (his mother) in June 1947 in St David's Grenada.
Mrs Baynes owned an estate called Marlmount in St David's Grenada and when she married John he took over the estate and worked on it as an overseer I think. Alice and McMillan had a daughter that i know of called Alice Sylvia McMillan who married a Lennard Sergeant in Grenada. Alice Sylvia died in 1993 and I have a copy of her Administration of Probate.
I haven't identified a particular Butler family - just a general Google search with "Butler".

I hope this isn't too long and doesn't take up too much of your time but have tried to show the sketchy nature of the 'handwritten story'.

Sue

 

[brigidmac]

oh my goodness this is amazing i was about to post about antigua as my DOBSON cousin has a dna match to someone with very little english heritage and a 11cm congo?cameroon

cousin  has mostly english on his fathers side and 2percent Congo cameroon

normally would think it random  but
hes got 20 matches with that ethnicity ranging from 1percent to 31 percent

im going to try and find out more about alberta lewis spouse unknown but she was born west indies and had 3 daughters  antigua ;
information from tree
 olive maud beatrice  BENJAMIN 1898 b greys farm ANTIGUA died new york  d ny 1984

Sarah BENJAMIN  1899_1984 antigua and barbuda

rosina matilda BENJAMIN 1899 d 1984 New York


i.ll try to Join up the Yorshire DOBSONs with Irish ones
there are several DNA matches to DOBSON s in USA various branches + to BUTLER surname
..have any of your family taken DNA ?

[Maiden Stone]

Some discrepancies with names - Alice instead of Mary a couple of times.

b.   Secondly to Mary Butler, an Irish girl whose father was of some means who objected strongly to the marriage of his only daughter to the English soldier of fortune and of the Protestant faith (Alice Jane of refined nature).

6.   Alice Jane Dobson, (nee Butler), was known and admired for her red, red hair and singing voice to which John Dobson added a sweet baritone to the delight of all who heard them which made them very popular among the people of Antigua, especially those of the upper classes.

John's marriage to Mrs Bayne's is in Irvin's notes. Mrs Baynes and John Dobson had a son called Richard. After John died Mrs Bayne and Richard eventually returned to the UK and Alice Jane never saw her half brother again. I do have a Grenada Births & Baptisms record of a birth in Grenada to Sarah and John Dobson on 1 Nov 1879.

John Dobson would have been over 90 in 1879 by my reckoning. Isn't it more likely that the John Dobson who married Mrs Baynes was the son from his first marriage? The John Dobson who fought at Vinegar Hill in 1798 would have been in his late 70's or older when he went to Grenada in 1865, a bit old to be appointed as an estate overseer?  Do you know when John Dobson died?
I suspect the family lore relate to John Dobson father & son, possibly both soldiers, maybe the same regiment.

What's the significance of the year 1840 in the topic heading?
When did Alice Jane die? When did she marry her 1st husband? When was her last child born?

Looking for John Dobson who was a Yorkshire soldier who went to Ireland, married a Butler and they had a daughter called alice jane dobson. John and wife had eloped to Antigua

The word elope is misleading if they were already married.

Hopefully brigidmac may uncover some information.

[brigidmac]

 I will ask my DOBSON. Contact on Ancestry who has a huge data base of Dobson branches . From Yorkshire 1700 to cotton mills in USA

And a DNA match who has some Dobsons Patterson Jackson matches and has traced her line back to an enslaved lady and Scottish slave owners