Author Topic: How close is the relationship  (Read 641 times)

Offline Liz in France

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How close is the relationship
« on: Wednesday 24 April 19 14:28 BST (UK) »
I have matched with a young person at 577 cMs over 25 segments and my sister has matched 608 cMs over 20 segments with the same person.  I have found the other tester's grandfather who is the same generation as myself but cannot get my head around how close the relationship is between her grandfather and myself.  I have researched both sides trees and as of yet can find no connection, so I thought if I knew what the relationship was I might stand a better chance of identifying the generation if not the actual connection.  Other matches have shown a much earlier connection and not the immediate family of the other tester.

It's probably quite obvious but I am not sure at all.  I find the whole DNA baffling but very interesting and a terrific tool for those that understand it.

Elizabeth

Offline rsel

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Re: How close is the relationship
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 17:02 BST (UK) »
I have matched with a young person at 577 cMs over 25 segments and my sister has matched 608 cMs over 20 segments with the same person.  I have found the other tester's grandfather who is the same generation as myself but cannot get my head around how close the relationship is between her grandfather and myself.  I have researched both sides trees and as of yet can find no connection, so I thought if I knew what the relationship was I might stand a better chance of identifying the generation if not the actual connection.  Other matches have shown a much earlier connection and not the immediate family of the other tester.

It's probably quite obvious but I am not sure at all.  I find the whole DNA baffling but very interesting and a terrific tool for those that understand it.

Elizabeth

The shared cm tool suggests these relationships for you :-

Relationship probabilities (based on stats from The DNA Geek)
81.23%
Great-Great-Aunt / Uncle Half Great-Aunt / Uncle Half 1C 1C1R Half Great-Niece / Nephew Great-Great-Niece / Nephew
16.89%
Great-Grandparent Great-Aunt / Uncle Half Aunt / Uncle 1C Half Niece / Nephew Great-Niece / Nephew Great-Grandchild
1.88%
* Great-Great-Great-Grandparent GGG Aunt / Uncle Great-Great-Great-Aunt / Uncle Half GG-Niece / Nephew Half GG-Aunt / Uncle Half Great-Great-Niece / Nephew Half Great-Great-Aunt / Uncle Half Great-Great-Niece / Nephew 1C2R 2C Half 1C1R

Richard
Sellens - Sussex
Newham - Surrey
Wellington - Dagenham, Essex
Camp - South Essex
Wren - Essex
Livermore - Essex
Wane - Essex
Fisk - Essex / Suffolk
Bailey/Bayley - Sussex
Newton - Sussex
Funnell - Sussex
Streeter - Sussex
Coates - Sussex
Maisey - Surrey

Offline Liz in France

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Re: How close is the relationship
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 17:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Richard,
Thank you for sending all that information.  I will be going through all the people in my tree that each classification applies to in the hope that something becomes apparent.  It may not of course if it was an illegitimate relationship.  I have identified a few people that were living in the same town during certain times that could be the link with the two families.  It would help to know which side of my family is matched but most of my relations are dead and only a few cousins are around now and they are not interested in keeping in touch let alone taking a DNA test.

I am keen to find out my relationship to the grandfather of the tester as we all grew up knowing
each other and only lived a few yards from each other although he is 9 years older than me so we did not hang around together.  We never knew of any relationship even though we used to call the parents Auntie and Uncle as they were close friends of my parents.

Hopefully, I will find out before it is too late!

Elizabeth

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: How close is the relationship
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 23:40 BST (UK) »
Liz in France, I have recently had a similar situation, which I am working through at present.

I match at 360 cMs, my first cousin matches at 615 cMs. The new match has shared matches on both my paternal grandmother's and paternal grandfather's lines.

The obvious conclusion, though I may be wrong, is that we are both first cousins once removed, or possibly my cousin is half-aunt (both scenarios fit in with the size of the match and the facts as known).

Incidentally, do you live in France? Another cousin who could help unravel the problem lives in France, where I believe DNA testing is illegal.

To return to your query, given the closeness of the match, the generation gap between you all, and DNA geek's suggestions, perhaps something along the lines of half great aunt/half aunt might fit best. The connectIon between you and the grandfather may be closer than you have thought.

If the grandfather is still alive, it would be worth asking him to get tested, if he is willing. Then prepare yourself for a wait, as my cousin and I are doing.

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go


Offline Liz in France

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Re: How close is the relationship
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 25 April 19 18:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Margaret,

Thanks for  your reply.  Your situation sounds more complicated than mine so I wish you well with it.
I am in the process of eliminating ancestors on both sides of my family and the male side of the other person's family to see who might have been in the same vicinity at around the time the connection person was born but it isn't easy and I feel out of my depth.

I would love to get the grandfather to test but I am not in contact with him although I am with his younger brother.  I have dropped a couple of hints but all the contact has been generated by me, so  I am not sure whether the family want to take it any further.  Me,  I'm desperate to find out but I guess I am just a bit on the nosey side.

I do think the grandfather and I are a close match, I even thought he might be a half brother but I think I have knocked that on the head after following up other matches.  A half great aunt is probably the best bet but I will have to wait and see.

Yes, I do live in France and it is illegal for DNA testing but I got my daughter to bring a test over when she came on holiday and take it back with her to post.  I did not know it was illegal at the but Ancestry did not offer the service to those in France.

Best of luck with your research.
Elizabeth

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: How close is the relationship
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 25 April 19 19:18 BST (UK) »
Elizabeth, I think your situation is more complicated than mine! I have a probable conclusion, you don't think you have one at all.

I must admit, I thought half brother to the grandfather seemed a logical explanation for your situation, but didn't feel I should actually say it. Now you have said it, I would be interested to know how you have excluded it.

If you are a half great aunt to your match, then you must be half sibling to the grandfather, surely?  Presumably your shared matches are only on one family line, unlike mine, which are on both. Have you got strong matches on each of your four grandparents lines?

Don't forget, your match is at least two further generations away from MRCA than you and her grandfather are, so will have fewer matches than you from any particular line.

Regards Margaret

STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

Offline Liz in France

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Re: How close is the relationship
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 25 April 19 21:05 BST (UK) »
Like I said Margaret, I do find it all a bit out of my depth. 

The connection is on (Fred's)  side as that is the only name that comes up with two or three other matches, so I was able to rule out his mother and my father being his biological parents. ( I have called my match's grandfather Fred but not his name really) 
 
The initial thought was there because my father was lodging in the same road as his mother and father before he married my mother.  I did not believe it really as Dad was so in love with Mum and he was not the philandering type at all. The other matches come from a generation before at least with no mention of (Fred's) immediate family in their tree, which means the genes were passed down to the other person via her grandfather and not via my father's family.  Does that make sense?

My matches are all on the one family but one that I did not know was connected although I knew the family well.   We are connected though on my mother and his mother's side but not by blood.  My maternal grandmother's  2nd husband and  Fred's maternal grandmother were brother and sister.   My grandmother remarried long after my mother was born and they lived quite a distance away, so no blood tie there.

I have  6 or 7 of 4th cousin matches on my maternal grandmother and grandfather's side but to date absolutely nothing on my father's side.

I have only one cousin that I have any contact with on my father's side, the other's whereabouts  is not known, so I will ask her to do a test.  It is the only way I am going to find out what side of my family is concerned.  It will narrow down the search hopefully.

You are right about me being a half sibling to Fred if I am a half great aunt, so that rules that line of enquiry out.  Therefore, I should look at the previous generation.

I have sorted out some difficult genealogical problems in the past but this is the most difficult to date.

I will let you know if I ever crack this problem,  Thanks again for your input, it has helped me a lot.
Elizabeth