Author Topic: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman  (Read 256 times)

Offline triode

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George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« on: Sunday 28 April 19 00:27 BST (UK) »
Hello,
I am looking for information for Harvey bell who was married to Amelia Bell (Wardman) and George Bell who was married to Hannah Foster. They lived in the Carlisle and Newcastle area and were born in the late 1800's early 1900's. I believe Amelia's father was Joseph Wardman and sisters were Kate,Rose and brother Joe.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Terry

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Offline AMBLY

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 28 April 19 04:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Terry,

BELL

BIRTH: Harvey Foster BELL, mms FOSTER, registered Mar Qtr 1893, Brampton, Cumberland
MARRIAGE: Harvey F BELL  & Amelia WARDMAN married June Qtr 1923 Gateshead, Durham
DEATH: Harvey Foster BELL, dob 12 Jan 1893, death: Jun Qtr 1981 Gateshead

CENSUS 1901: 10 Raven Street, Botchergate, Cumberland
RG13 -  Piece 4865 -  Folio: 31 -  Pg52
Head: Hugh  NIXON, 56, marr, Fish Monger (own account) b Ainstable Cimberland
Wife: Hannah NIXON 35, marr, b Corby Hill Cumberland
Step-Son: Horace F BELL 13, Errand Boy (port), b Edmond Castle,
Step-Son: Harvey F BELL 8, b Low Row,
Dau: Edith M NIXON 6, b Carlisle, Cumberland
Dau: Violet NIXON 4, b Anglionby, Cumberland
Son: Herbert H NIXON, 3, b Anglionby, Cumberland
Son: George H NIXON 2, b Anglionby, Cumberland
Son: John W. S. NIXON 7mths, b Carlisle

BIRTH: Horace Frank BELL, mms FOSTER, registered Mar Qtr 1888, Brampton

MARRIAGE: Hugh NIXON and Hannah BELL, registered Sep 1894, Carlisle

So looking for Hannah FOSTER, b abt 1866, first husband BELL?
Do you get BELL's first name 'George' from a marriage or birth cert of one of the children?



Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

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Offline triode

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 28 April 19 04:56 BST (UK) »
Wow thanks Ambly for the information. It's a big help to me. I knew there were some nixons in there but didn't know where they fit it.
Thanks so much for your help
Cheers.
Terry Bell

Offline AMBLY

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 28 April 19 05:36 BST (UK) »
Hannah with her FOSTER birth family  (father & siblings) is seemingly pretty identifiable going back, including:

In 1871 the family is in Corby Hill. Father William FOSTER is a widower  aged 48, with 8 children of whom youngest is Hannah 6.
RG10 Piece 5208/ Folio 63/ pg24

In 1881, father William FOSTER is 56, still a widower, with 3 children at home, youngest Hannah aged 15, Housekeeper. Also a Grandson in the house aged 9.
RG11 Piece 5148/ Folio 54/ Pg1

Hannah is showing up as a young widow in 1891:
CENSUS 1891: At Chapel Burn, Denton Nether, Brampton, Cumberland
RG12 /Piece 4280 / Folio 120/ pg 8
Head: Hannah BELL 25, widow, General Domestic Worker, b Hayton, Cumberland
Son: Fergus W BELL, 6, Scholar, b Hayton, Cumberland
Son: Tom Guy BELL 5, Scholar, b Hayton, Cumberland
Son: Horace Frank BELL 3, b Hayton, Cumberland

Like son Horace, the sons Fergus William BELL 1885 and Tom Guy BELL 1886 were registered Brampton, as BELL with mms FOSTER

Noting:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWC2-7RF
The NIXON-FOSTER family was a prolific one!

Hannah apparently had two nephews:

Thomas Irving FOSTER , mms NEWTON
Born June Qtr 1889, Cumberland. Son of Hannah's older brother William FOSTER , married Annie NEWTON 1881 .

Isaac MOODY, mms FOSTER
Born Jun Qtr 1891 Cockermouth. Son of Hannah's older sister Margaret  who married John Moody in 1889.

Hannah herself appears to be legitimately born - no doubt she was a FOSTER and no reason why she may not be married as FOSTER.

If the quest is to locate the FOSTER - BELL  marriage....  then information from the Birth certs of her BELL 3 sons looks like the only place to start. Maybe you already have that info?

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 28 April 19 11:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Terry,

You also asked about Amelia's father, Joseph
... believe Amelia's father was Joseph Wardman and sisters were Kate,Rose and brother Joe.

DEATH: Amelia BELL, DoB 30 Aug 1902
Death Registered Mar Qtr 2005, Tyne & Wear
Inferred Age 102

MARRIAGE Parents:

Mar Qtr 1899,Gateshead
Joseph Arundel WARDMAN
Mary Ann SWADDLE

BIRTH 1902: Amelia WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
registered Sep Qtr, Gateshead,

BIRTH 1904: Catherine Swaddle WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
Registered Dec Qtr, Gateshead,
 
BIRTH 1906: Thomas WARDMAN, mms TWADDLE (sic)
Registered Dec Qtr, Garteshead

BIRTH 1911: Joseph Arundel WARDMAN, mms TWADDLE (sic)
Registered Mar Qtr, Garteshead

BIRTH 1913: Ann WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
Registered Dec Qtr, Garteshead

BIRTH 1916: Rose Ann Swaddle WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
Registered Sep Qtr, Garteshead

Joseph Arundel WARDMAN

BIRTH 1876: Joseph Arundel WARDMAN,  mms REED
Registered  Jun Qtr Doncaster

BAPTISM 1877:
At St John the Baptist, Barnsley Joseph Arundel WARDMAN, bap 1 Sep 1877, son of of Thomas WARDMAN, Bottle Maker and Ann his wife, abode: 5 Corporation Street.

CENSUS 1881:At 15 Bradley Crescent, Pembroke Road, Shirehampton, Westbury on Trym, Gloucestershire
[Head: not entered - not at home on Census night]
Wife: Ann WARDMAN 40, b Newcastle on Tyne
Dau: Beatrice WARDMAN 10, b Yorkshire
Son: Albert E WARDMAN  6, b Newcastle on Tyne
• Son: Joseph A WARDMAN 4, b Yorkshire
Dau: Lavinia WARDMAN 1, b Gloucestershire

CENSUS 1881: Husband Thomas and their 2 elder sons:
At 50 Raglan Street, St Helens,
Head: Peter BROGAN 32, Bottle Maker, b St Helens
Wife: Anne BROGAN 22,
Son: Wm BROGAN 3,
Son: Thomas BROGAN 1,
Lodger: Thomas WARDMAN 42, marr, Bottlemaker, b Newcastle, Northumberland
Lodger: James WARDMAN 16, Glass worker, b Scotland
Lodger:  Tho's WARDMAN 16, Glass worker, b Scotland

CENSUS 1891: At 14 Spoor Street,  Dunstan, Whickham, Durham,
Head: Thomas WARDMAN 52, Glass Bottle Maker, b Elswick, Northumberland
Wife: Ann WARDMAN 51, b Newcastle, Northumberland
Son: James WARDMAN 26, unm, Glass Bottle Maker, b Glasgow, Scotland
Son: Thomas WARDMAN  24, unm, Glass Bottle Maker, b Glasgow, Scotland
Dau: Beatrice WARDMAN 20, unm, b Br………  , Yorkshire
Son: Albert E WARDMAN, 16, Apprentice Glass Bottle Maker, b Newcastle, Northumberland
• Son: Joseph A WARDMAN 14, b Masbrough, Yorkshire
Dau: Lovinia A WARDMAN 10, b Shirehampton, Gloucestershire

1901: At 14 West View Tce, Dunston, Whickham, Durham - now married to Mary Ann Swaddle:
Head: Joseph A WARDMAN, 24, Bottle Maker (worker), b Mexbro, Yorks
Wife: Mary A WARDMAN 21, b Dunstan, Durham

DEATH: Joseph A WARDMAN, age 83Y, registered Mar Qtr 1960, Durham

There's a lot to be found :-)

Free sites (have to sign up though):
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
https://www.familysearch.org/en/

Free:
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
https://www.freereg.org.uk/
https://www.freecen.org.uk/

Free to Register, Pay to view or subscribe to view full records:
https://www.findmypast.com/1939register

Re:  the 1911 Census and the 1939 Register - for copyright reasons we are not allowed do lookups for others and post about it on Rootschat, nor can you ask for Lookups in these two data sets.  You can post about the findings that you have made for yourself, in the course of a topic though (but no copy/pasting). 

Otherwise, you can ask for lookups on any event for your family - information can be found in a vast range of places - best not ask for lookups in a particular online database, just ask for the information you'd like to find and the lookeruppers will go from there  ;).

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline triode

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 28 April 19 12:21 BST (UK) »
Thanks Ambly,
That’s amazing it will keep me busy now. Have been asking my uncles and Aunties for the information you have just given me but they didn’t know where it all fit it. I knew about the swaddles also but that was all. They had no idea what Joseph Wardman fathers name was but thanks to your information I know have more info than I ever expected to get. I really appreciate it.
Thanks.
Cheers
Terry

Offline triode

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 13:23 BST (UK) »
Any mention of George bells parents names ?

Offline AMBLY

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #7 on: Friday 17 May 19 11:31 BST (UK) »
Any mention of George bells parents names ?

Hi Terry,

Just has a re-read of the thread to re-gather thoughts...... ;D

Any trace of George BELL himself would have to be first, to have any hope of finding the step back to his parents.

The first issue is the timeline:

In 1881 CENSUS Hannah FOSTER age 15 at home with father.
In 1885 BIRTH Son Fergus William BELL
In 1886 BIRTH Son Tom Guy BELL
In 1888 BIRTH Horace Frank BELL
In 1891 CENSUS, 4th April: Hannah, is listed as a widow, aged 25
In 1893 BIRTH Harvey Foster BELL  (maybe born later 1892 Qtr4)


Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« Reply #8 on: Friday 17 May 19 12:45 BST (UK) »
I believe the identity of George BELL is going to be easily found - that is the father of Fergus, Tom and Horace.

In absence of any other evidence as proof, you'd need the Birth Certs of those boys. Partly to determine if the father of them all is George BELL - and the same George BELL -  and where they were born?

And the death cert of
:
George BELL, age 58 - SEP QTR 1890 Brampton (born abt 1832)
To see who the informant was and to determine if he is the father of the 3 children, and if he is the man in the  1881 Census below:

Recalling that Hannah's first 3 BELL sons Fergus, Tom & Horace were all born Hayton  (according to Census 1891). This looks like the right George BELL, in 1881 to match the man who died 1890 - and I believe, the father of Hannah's children:

In 1881 CENSUS: At Edmond Castle Lodge, Hayton
Head: George BELL 49, Widower, General Labourer, General Labourer, b Hayton
Dau: Elizabeth BELL, 24, unm, Domestic Servant, b Hayton
Visitor: John STEEL 60, unm, Joiner, b Wesnal, Cumberland

You can follow this man all the way back to 1841, where he is in Hayton with his parents, John BELL and Elizabeth nee STEEL. The maiden name of Elizabeth is from the GRO Birth of her two youngest children.

And there's the rub.   You can probably resolve who George BELL is, BUT:

If he is the man who died mid 1890 - he cannot be the father of Harvey Foster BELL birth registered Mar Qtr 1893 - unless for some reason Harvey's actual birth was no later than around March to June 1891 and he was registered very late in late 1892 to early 1893.

What have you got that mention's George BELL by name? A Birth Cert  maybe?

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)