Author Topic: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!  (Read 1424 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #9 on: Monday 29 April 19 21:16 BST (UK) »
P.S. to my reply #8.
A tree on roegenealogy.com has Alicia de la Pole, born in Wingfield, Suffolk, parents John de la Pole and Elizabeth Plantagenet. A note says he was John de la Pole of Hartington.

'Notices of the Family of Pole or de la Pole, of Derbyshire, and of other families connected with it'
This suggests a mistake in another source.
'John de la Pole of Newborough, County Stafford, married daughter & heir of Hartington, Co. Derby and had issue Sir John de la Pole of Newborough, knight ...'
This son, John had a son, Peter, whose son was John de la Pole, esquire, of Hartington.
'De la Pole of Hartington    little is recorded of their descent    only pedigree we have met with of them, and this is imperfect, is in Newton's MSS, to which we have been able to make trifling additions from other authorities, still it is very scanty .'
Then follows a genealogy of the de la Pole family of Hartington. This has a line of John, son of John, son of John &c. One John de la Pole, knight had a son, John de la Pole, esquire, who married Jane Okeover, daughter of Hum. Okeover of Okeover, esq. According to this tree they had 2 daughters, Lucia and Alicia. Alicia's husband was John Daykyns of Biggin Grange, parish of Hartington. There are no dates on the tree.  The writer of this text mentions doubts as to whether Alicia was Lucia's sister or her aunt.
Reference is made to documentary evidence that Hartington was already in possession of the de la Pole family in the reign of King Edward IV.
There is a pdf of relevant pages but my link didn't work.

If the genealogy of de la Pole of Hartington is correct, then it seems to me that someone has confused John de la Pole of Hartington, father (or possible brother) of Alicia de la Pole with the John de la Pole, Duke of Suffolk, who was married to Elizabeth Plantagenet, sister of King Edward IV.
To confuse matters further, Margaret Plantagenet, Duchess of Salisbury, daughter of George, Duke of Clarence and niece of Edward IV and Richard III, was married to a member of another Pole family. Henry VIII had her beheaded.

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Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #10 on: Monday 29 April 19 23:01 BST (UK) »
You only need one female ancestor in several hundred years to "put it about a bit" to ruin all your careful research. My lovely aunt from my youth managed to conceal the fact that, until 15 years after her death, she was my dad's mother rather than his sister. 

On the plus side, she has made my research much more fun!

Martin
Gedmatch DNA Kit H062246.
FT-DNA Kit B388093

Names:
Loughborough and Loughbrough, (London, Hull, Pirton, Durham & Hartlepool);
Watson, (Bedlington, Jarrow & Hartlepool);
Ballard & Glassop (E. London); 
Leggett (Corton, Scarborough, Hartlepool); 
Young, Adamson & Wilson, (Hartlepool). 

I use GRAMPS v5.0 software. 

My ancestors are probably turning in their graves, not that I can actually find any of them.

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #11 on: Monday 29 April 19 23:11 BST (UK) »
Mart, I hope you are not implying that any of those honourable ladies 'put it about a bit'.  :o

Online Josephine

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 30 April 19 01:40 BST (UK) »
Hi, GD40:

If you do a search for "John de la Pole" at the Internet Archive, you'll get some interesting results. Perhaps you might find a book or two with information that will help you prove or disprove your line.

https://archive.org/index.php

Good luck with your search.

Regards,
Josephine
England: Barnett; Beaumont; Christy; George; Holland; Parker; Pope; Salisbury
Scotland: Currie; Curror; Dobson; Muir; Oliver; Pryde; Turnbull; Wilson
Ireland: Carson; Colbert; Coy; Craig; McGlinchey; Riley; Rooney; Trotter; Waters/Watters

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 30 April 19 02:54 BST (UK) »
If you do a search for "John de la Pole" at the Internet Archive, you'll get some interesting results. Perhaps you might find a book or two with information that will help you prove or disprove your line.

https://archive.org/index.php
Try Delapole as surname. Most will be about John,  Duke of Suffolk and his son, John, Earl of Lincoln who was named heir to Richard III before Battle of Bosworth and who later joined a rebellion against Henry VII. Mentions of de la Poles in Visitations books for counties Derbyshire and Staffordshire are more likely to be relevant.
I used de la Pole and found loads of books about Arctic explorers.  ???

Online Josephine

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 30 April 19 04:07 BST (UK) »
There's a handy little index/menu/thingie to the left of the search results. When I search on "John de la Pole" it shows 389 genealogy books (but doesn't show how many of those might be duplicates). There are other categories as well.
England: Barnett; Beaumont; Christy; George; Holland; Parker; Pope; Salisbury
Scotland: Currie; Curror; Dobson; Muir; Oliver; Pryde; Turnbull; Wilson
Ireland: Carson; Colbert; Coy; Craig; McGlinchey; Riley; Rooney; Trotter; Waters/Watters

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 30 April 19 04:51 BST (UK) »
Name is also spelled Poole in 'Visitacions of Staffordshire 1583' .  A daughter of a Poole of Harington was wife to someone. Countess of Salisbury & family were also down as Poole. There is also a Delapole in index.
I found that book by selecting heraldry from menu.
I also got thousands of books which contained 'John de' in the text.  ::)
Another set of results included South Pole as well as North Pole. My search has taken me from Pole to Pole.   ;D

Offline GD40

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 30 April 19 21:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Everyone - Thanks for your input - It's all most intriguing!
cristeen:
I'm afraid I've implicitly trusted Ancestry Hints in the past, but will treat them with suspicion from now on!
Mort'n'Al:
Not just ladies "put it all about"! One of my great grandfathers, a Major General in India in the 1800's, enjoyed the company of a number of Bibis before he was married, who bore him four children!
Josephine and Maiden Stone  :
I'll renew my research of Alicia, but it is good to see her confirmed as a child of John Dakyns and Jane Okeover, with a sister Lucia.
I initially discovered her on Ancestry and then on My Heritage.
Thanks everybody for your help - Your enthusiasm is most heartening - Thank you.
Geoff.

Online Josephine

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Re: Trying to trace my earliest ancestor......but struggling!
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 30 April 19 23:07 BST (UK) »
Best of luck to you, Geoff. Your appreciation is much appreciated!

 :)

Regards,
Josephine
England: Barnett; Beaumont; Christy; George; Holland; Parker; Pope; Salisbury
Scotland: Currie; Curror; Dobson; Muir; Oliver; Pryde; Turnbull; Wilson
Ireland: Carson; Colbert; Coy; Craig; McGlinchey; Riley; Rooney; Trotter; Waters/Watters