Vernon Industrial School information help

[Kylie B]

Hi there,
I am looking for information on what happened to the children of Esther TAYLOR and George CREIGHTON from Coonamble NSW.

It would appear that the sons- Charles Richard born 1884 and George Hector born 1877- were both admitted to the Vernon Industrial School in June 1888.

How do I find out why they were admitted there, how long they were there for and what happened to them after that?

I think....they went there as they had been abandoned by their parents, which if correct, means I am also looking for 3 sisters and what became of them at that time also.....any ideas please?

Many thanks everyone!
Kylie

[rosball]

Hi Kylie,
   It has the entrance records on ancestry.
   It says mother and brother  is in gaol and father is living away from Coonamble  and the children were living in a destitute house with no-one to care for them.

Ros

   sorry I have to dash or I would add a snip for you

   You could check NSW state archives for gaol records and photographs https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/

[Kylie B]

Thanks very much Ros- so abandoned as I suspected.
I will try state archives for gaol records.
Do you know where the girls may have gone??
Thanks for the advice!!
Kylie

[majm]

Here is an earlier thread that I remember posting on,  I have not read back through it, but it may have information about the children

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=559298.0 

JM

ADD  here is the Opening Post from that earlier thread.  It has information about the children, and it notes that their mum was in gaol and their father was working away.   May I note that in that era, many menfolk in rural situations would be working away .... sometimes for 10 - 15 months - eg a droving plant  or landclearing (ringbarking, lopping, sawing, fencing etc) or canal building ...

Hoping someone might have some inspiration on this one...!!

I have an Esther Taylor- born circa 1859 in Mille near Narrabri NSW
She married George Creighton in Coonamble in 1875- no ages recorded on marriage, but if her age on her children's birth is correct, she was a minor (16yrs old).

Esther and George had 5 children- all born in Coonamble- George Hector, Charles Richard, Edith, Emily Jane and Sarah.

George was a sawyer, apparently away from home with work a lot, and died in 1893 in Toowoomba QLD.

I have now found records of the children which shed a bit more light on the family...In May 1888, George Hector was arrested for stealing. According to his record, he was un-educated, under-fed and un-cared for, roaming the streets. He was sent to an Industrial School (the ship the Vernon).  The other brother Charles was arrested shortly after- for roaming the streets un-cared for. He was too young to be sent to an industrial school, so became a Dependant child of the State, was taken into the Benevolent Society, and then fostered out. It would appear the same happened to Edith and Emily. I have not found any sign of Sarah.

Now on these children's records, they describe the parents as unfit and not loking after their children, being frequently drunk, and that Esther  Creighton was frequently in custody for larceny, drunkeness and prostitution. She was definately in custody in May 1888 for stealing- when her children were picked up off the streets of Coonamble.

I would like to find out what was Esther's story- her time in custody and what happened when she got out and found her children gone- where did she go and what did she do....but here is the hitch.

The records of Coonamble gaol (where I assume she was in custody) are held by the state correctional services, not the archives, and they require proof of relationship...which means 8 birth and marriage certificates.

SO!! I am wondeirng if there is any other way of finding out more about Esther's criminal activities, and what became of her after 1888???

Hoping for a bright idea as I am stuck!
Kylie

[majm]

https://www.findandconnect.gov.au/guide/nsw/NE01100

http://www.cockatooisland.gov.au/visit/history/reform-school

https://blogs.ancestry.com.au/ancestry/2011/03/03/entrance-books-for-the-vernon-and-the-sobraon-1867-1911/

https://researchdata.ands.org.au/nautical-school-ship-1892-1911/164521

and many others to be found via Mr Google     

JM

[Kylie B]

Thanks so much JM- yep they were my much earlier threads and I never got to the bottom of the story....

So back on the hunt again and hoping for fresh eyes and fresh ideas!!

Still no idea what became of the 5 children between 1888 and their adult life events. Or what became of their mother Esther Creighten nee Taylor.

Thanks for any advice!!!

[majm]

Trove is an excellent resource.  Free to search, and with a great keyword search option set

The Cumberland Argus & Fruitgrowers Advocate.  7 Feb 1891
Parramatta Police Court
George Hector Creighton, a boy of 13 was charged with absconding from his apprenticeship to Mary Ann FULLER of Dural.  The boy was apprenticed to Mrs Fuller from the training ship Vernor in September 1889, and on 14th ultimo (ie January) absconded....  .....  Mr Best would be glad to have him transferred from Mrs Fuller to himself .... to allow time for steps to be taken to secure the transfer of the indentures....

Thanks so much JM- yep they were my much earlier threads and I never got to the bottom of the story....

So back on the hunt again and hoping for fresh eyes and fresh ideas!!

Still no idea what became of the 5 children between 1888 and their adult life events. Or what became of their mother Esther Creighten nee Taylor.

Thanks for any advice!!!

Here is the live link to Trove : https://trove.nla.gov.au/
and the live link to Trove's digitised newspapers advanced search option.   

JM

[Kylie B]

Brilliant JM thank you so much!
Off to trawl Trove tonight 😁😁😁

[majm]

Charles Richard CREIGHTON’s admission papers to Vernon commence 26th May 1888, and are very detailed and confronting.  They include that ‘the Mother of the said child having been on the 25th May Ins^t. Convicted of Larcency and sentence to two months imprisonment in Coonamble Gaol.  The house where the said child was found being the resort of thieves drunkards & chinamen’  It further notes that information to name and birth (for Charles) was ‘obtained from the District Registrar Coonamble.  Information as to religion obtained from parents.’ And ‘Uneducated never attended any school’.  …. And much more.   
I comment, 
  May 1888 less Sept 1884 puts Charles at age 3, so there was NO reason for him to be enrolled at school. 
  The document definitely has ‘parents’ not ‘parent’
  The police prosecuted Esther, and she went to gaol the day BEFORE this action against Charles, aged 3.   – So prosecute the mother, and then go after the children ….
  The document includes this note ‘There are five children none of whom have been inmates of any institution’.  And ‘The boy’s health appears to be good’.   
  And ‘The day previous to arresting the children (so perhaps same day as arresting Esther) the police had entered the premises and found Esther with a drunken man, not her husband, lying on the bed and the children were huddled together in the corner of the room.   

May I suggest you go through the earlier thread as I recall going through all this back then.   Did you enlist the support of a Member of Parliament for access to the Coonamble Gaol records?

JM