Author Topic: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland  (Read 1106 times)

Offline battista

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 02 May 19 03:30 BST (UK) »
The endorsement notes show that NSW BDM has reconciled the information in columns 7, 9 and 10 with the Church Registers .... but NOT column 5 ... perhaps that was recorded in a different church register.  Most denominations used two or more registers and stored them separately (fire, flood, safe keeping etc).    So column 7 is 'age' and '9' is parents and '10' is parents occupations.   That information was NOT sent through to NSW BDM at the time the clergy transmitted the information.  And NSW BDM commenced the reconciliation process in around 1911 and it stopped due to WWI, and basically has not ever been finalised.  So you are fortunate that at least columns 7, 9 and 10 are on the document.

That's very interesting, thank you for that info! Where can I read more about this?
Battista
Lawson

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Offline majm

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 02 May 19 03:35 BST (UK) »
A Joseph Bernard MURRAY-WHITE may have been a Sydney Solicitor, born Bathurst NSW.  If so, a tragic death in 1913.  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/111197869  Bathurst Times 13 Aug 1913.

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 02 May 19 03:38 BST (UK) »
The endorsement notes show that NSW BDM has reconciled the information in columns 7, 9 and 10 with the Church Registers .... but NOT column 5 ... perhaps that was recorded in a different church register.  Most denominations used two or more registers and stored them separately (fire, flood, safe keeping etc).    So column 7 is 'age' and '9' is parents and '10' is parents occupations.   That information was NOT sent through to NSW BDM at the time the clergy transmitted the information.  And NSW BDM commenced the reconciliation process in around 1911 and it stopped due to WWI, and basically has not ever been finalised.  So you are fortunate that at least columns 7, 9 and 10 are on the document.

That's very interesting, thank you for that info! Where can I read more about this?

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0


The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

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Offline sparrett

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 02 May 19 09:29 BST (UK) »
Some aspects of this sequence of events are a little odd.

I feel the details of the obituary may be  inaccurate.

According to the MC, the usual home of both parties was Christchurch.

1877 Henry  MURRAY ,a clerk Christchurch in the Town Clerk's office.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GLOBE18770207.2.12

1884, both parties have left Christchurch, and marry in Sydney where neither of the bride's parents appear to be witnesses. Instead, one is a local solicitor.

I make no sightings of either of Eileen's parents in NZ or Australia and note father's occupation is squatter, with no reference to a military connection in 1884.  Why would he squat? Wasn't there an army allowance. Did he have experience on the land?

Later Electoral Roll listings for the MURRAYs show them back in Christchurch and Henry seems to be still in his same job at the Town Clerk's office as a clerk. The first birth to the couple is in NZ, 2 or 3 years after the wedding.

 ???

Sue



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Offline battista

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 02 May 19 10:38 BST (UK) »
@sparrett, as far as I'm aware Henry Murray was born in Christchurch and his parents John and Frances Murray died there.

Henry Murray's obit: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19250520.2.97?query=Henry%20Murray&phrase=2&start_date=01-01-1925&end_date=31-12-1925&snippet=true

I suppose Eileen moved to NZ, met Henry, they both went back to NSW to marry with her family. Strange that neither of their parents are witnesses.

Thanks for the further input Sue, those are certainly points to ponder on.

----

Is anyone able to read the officiating minister? (https://i.imgur.com/bZEQHfH.png) I see J. M. Ga....
Would that name be the minister from St Thomas?
Battista
Lawson

Offline battista

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 02 May 19 11:11 BST (UK) »
Ok, I've sent an email to the Roman Catholic Diocese for Sydney, as well as an email to St. Thomas Lewisham, which I hope is the same one. Just looking at a map, Lewisham is right next to Petersham, so I figured there's a good chance they are the same church.

@majm The solicitor death is very sad. "NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks" is extremely useful. I'm always surprised with the very extensive posts by RootsChat members which seem to cover every topic I come across. What a great resource. Thanks for that majm  ;D

There's also this on Trove for St. Thomas Petersham: https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/168798344?q&versionId=183994348 Only goes to 1870 for marriages though.
Battista
Lawson

Offline majm

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 02 May 19 11:39 BST (UK) »
Yes, Lewisham and Petersham as suburbs are right next door to each other.  Petersham the suburb is within the then larger district of Petersham .... which in the 1800s included Lewisham and several other nearby suburbs...    The NSW BDM district of Petersham was similar but slightly different from Petersham the NSW Land Titles district.  Each of the various NSW colonial government departments had their own defined geographical areas, and in only a few cases did the boundaries actually match up.  Then the various denominations had their own ways of defining their areas too... so a C of E parish may not line up with an RC parish etc etc.... 

If the family came from Ireland as part of a military household, it would have needed to have arrived prior to about 1870.  British regiments were on tour to the colonies until then.  Victoria Barracks, in Paddington Sydney would be the main H.Q. and of course the Royal Navy had a China station, an East Indies Station as well as one policing NZ and Australian waters (Australian Squadron) from 1859 until well into the 1900s,

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 02 May 19 11:48 BST (UK) »
NSW Archives Index to Squatters and Graziers

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/squatters-and-graziers-index

This is an index to holders of depasturing licences and others who were occupying Crown land beyond the Nineteen Counties, and who were visited by the Commissioners of Crown Lands. We have titled this Index Squatters and Graziers, the formal title is: Index to Itineraries and returns of Commissioners of Crown Lands, 1837-49

There's a John BURKE listed there, but for 1839  ::)  I am sure that there's a comma missing in that index,  John LAMBIE,  Murray and St Vincent    (Murray and St Vincent being counties in NSW) and John LAMBIE Esq being the Commissioner for Crown Lands...  BUT that is likely to be an aside,  that John Burke (1839-40) would be TOO EARLY to NSW for Eileen's birth was in Cork, Ireland. 

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

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Offline sparrett

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Re: St Aubyn Burke family from Cork, Ireland
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 02 May 19 12:18 BST (UK) »


I suppose Eileen moved to NZ, met Henry, they both went back to NSW to marry with her family. Strange that neither of their parents are witnesses.

Thanks for the further input Sue, those are certainly points to ponder on.



Apart from the obituary mention of her parents, can you suggest any definite pointers to Eileen's parents being in Australia?

As I mentioned, there may well be errors in obit info.  The journalist relies on members of family to create the tribute. They can be misinformed on many counts.

Sue

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