Smith family mystery (Harewood and Leeds)

[Matt62]

As an addendum, could anyone have a check to see if they can find a birth certificate for my Hannah Smith? Would be most grateful.

I found her siblings William, Sarah and Samuel on familysearch but not her unfortunately.

I believe she was born in Harewood between 1782-1785 but am not certain. I know that she died in 1837.

[Annette7]

She's on familysearch too - Hannah Smith bp.28/4/1783 St. Peter, Leeds, dau.of George Smith.

Annette

[cat1968]

I am a little perplexed by an apparent inconsistency, or rather anomaly, found while researching my Smith ancestors in Harewood and Leeds in the 18th-early 19th centuries.

My ancestor Hannah Smith - daughter of George Smith, banker, from Leeds - married Thomas Fawell in 1807 in St. Peters Church, Leeds (please see attached). I have a series of contemporary 'letters' with dates of births and deaths for this family, two leafs of which I have attached as 'Fawell letter 1' and 'Fawell letter 2' below.

In this letter, George Smith 'banker from Leeds' is listed as the grandfather of Hannah Smith's children with Thomas and therefore her father.

From a memoir written by George Smith's son William (born 1785), I learned that George's wife was Hannah Craven of Harewood:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433082272893;view=1up;seq=27

"My mother was Hannah Craven. daughter of a farmer who resided at Harewood..."

I subsequently found her marriage to George Smith in 1778 in Harewood on familysearch. There is another memoir written by Hannah Craven's sister in 1812 (Sarah Baiston) who likewise refers to her as "Mrs. Smith".

I then came across a newspaper account published in Salt Lake City in 1897 by Hannah Craven's great-granddaughter, Eve A Cooke and based upon her mother Sarah Anne Cooke's memories, in which she wrote the following:

"Hannah Craven married George Smith, a most estimable young man, a devout Methodist and a cashier in the Bank of Leeds, of which he afterwards became President.

They had a family of three fine sons, William and George, who succeeded their father in the bank, and Samuel, a surgeon, generally spoken of as the handsome and skillful Doctor, and two beautiful daughters, Mary (May?), afterwards Mrs. Towe, and Sarah, their youngest (Mrs. Sutton) my own mother's mother, whose early death was the great sorrow of the family"

(Written by Eve Anna Dykes, Salt Lake City, August 15th 1897. "My mother, if living, would be 89 years old today." (Written Sarah Ann Cooke Born 1808 7-15-1808))

I found it odd that my ancestor Hannah Smith, a daughter of George Smith (banker), was absent from the above list of family members.

Hannah and George's youngest daughter Sarah Sutton (the grandmother of Eve A Cooke, the author of the above piece) is mentioned in my Fawell family letter 2 as "Mrs. (Hannah) Fawell's sister", where it is noted that Hannah Smith and Thomas Fawell buried their one year old son Thomas Hindmarsh Fawell in a grave alongside his aunt Sarah Sutton and "Mrs Fawell's father George Smith, the banker" and her brother George Smith Jr.

I also found an entry about Samuel Smith - the "handsome" doctor referred to above - in Parr's Life of the Fellows of the Royal College of Surgeons, where it is noted:

https://livesonline.rcseng.ac.uk/client/en_GB/lives/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fSD_ASSET$002f0$002f372722/one?qu=%22rcs%3A+E000538%22&rt=false%7C%7C%7CIDENTIFIER%7C%7C%7CResource+Identifier
 

"[Samuel Smith was] born in Briggate, Leeds, the son of George Smith, banker; was apprenticed to his brother-in-law, Fawell, a general practitioner in Leeds."

Thus Hannah Smith was definitely the daughter of George Smith, banker, and sister of Sarah Sutton, William Smith, George Smith Jr. and Samuel Smith.

But on her marriage certificate to Thomas Fawell in 1807 (please see attached), Hannah Craven is nowhere mentioned. Her father George Smith 'banker' is again there but instead of Hannah Craven, I find 'Hannah Muschamp'.

This Hannah Muschamp is the daughter of Hannah Craven's sister Mary Craven, wife of William Muschamp of Harewood.

Could someone help shed some light upon: (a) the reason why Hannah Smith is not listed in the article above as one of the daughters of Hannah Craven and George Smith, banker & (b) the reason why Hannah Craven doesn't appear alongside her husband George on the 1807 marriage certificate.

I would be most grateful for any assistance.

The info was in the email I sent you
If you look far right of Hannah+ Thomas marriage certificate you can just about see the signature of Hannah Craven, She has written her name as Hannah Smith.
The info I sent you on the Christenings I had forgotten to add William, I found him later in the day.

[cat1968]

To my Cousin, LOOK
Her H overlaps onto another signature but yes you can see Hannah and the Smith is very clear.

[mckha489]

Not wanting to take sides in a family argument Lol, but  I see the witnesses as


                                               John Gaulter

George Smith                   Sam G (or maybe Sam^L) Smith                         G Smith Jr
Hannah Muschamp        Elizabeth Storey                                                               Wm Smith


No Harriet Smith (other than the one getting married of course)

[cat1968]

Not wanting to take sides in a family argument Lol, but  I see the witnesses as


                                               John Gaulter

George Smith                   Sam G (or maybe Sam^L) Smith                         G Smith Jr
Hannah Muschamp        Elizabeth Storey                                                               Wm Smith


No Harriet Smith (other than the one getting married of course)

Oh dear yes I see it now, better with glasses on

Sorry Cousin, although it looked like 'H' as the S was leading into the other signature

[Ladymart62]

Hi Matt,
I was given that family story that I forwarded to your niece about Hannah Craven Smith's portrait by my father's cousin Karen Dykes-Evans. It was handed down from her grandmother to her.

I also have some thoughts and questions regarding the story and our family and I would love to work with you.

My thought on your question as to why wasn't Hannah Craven's name listed as a witness; usually on most licenses, there aren't as many witnesses listed as there was on theirs.
Maybe Hannah thought her husband's signature as a witness was enough for the two of them?
Hannah Muschamp may have been particularly close to the bride and wanted to be included, or very close to both the bride and groom; maybe Thomas Fawell was close to the family before the marriage? He apprenticed Samuel Smith and taught him the trade of a surgeon, it could be possible.

As for why Hannah wasn't included in the story, that bothered me as well, and made me wonder if there was a mistake, but  Eve Anna does say that her mother "often spoke of writing a sketch of her, (Hannah Craven)  and a romantic incident connected with the portrait, but as she never accomplished it I will do the best I can to carry out her wish in the respect".
 It is entirely conceivable that she just forgot her name as she was rewriting the story from memory many years after the fact and after her mother dies.

I have some questions I would love to share with you and I sent them to your niece. If you would like to contact me I would like to talk them over with you as well.

Best Regards,
Laurie

[Matt62]

Hi Matt,
I was given that family story that I forwarded to your niece about Hannah Craven Smith's portrait by my father's cousin Karen Dykes-Evans. It was handed down from her grandmother to her.

I also have some thoughts and questions regarding the story and our family and I would love to work with you.

My thought on your question as to why wasn't Hannah Craven's name listed as a witness; usually on most licenses, there aren't as many witnesses listed as there was on theirs.
Maybe Hannah thought her husband's signature as a witness was enough for the two of them?
Hannah Muschamp may have been particularly close to the bride and wanted to be included, or very close to both the bride and groom; maybe Thomas Fawell was close to the family before the marriage? He apprenticed Samuel Smith and taught him the trade of a surgeon, it could be possible.

As for why Hannah wasn't included in the story, that bothered me as well, and made me wonder if there was a mistake, but  Eve Anna does say that her mother "often spoke of writing a sketch of her, (Hannah Craven)  and a romantic incident connected with the portrait, but as she never accomplished it I will do the best I can to carry out her wish in the respect".
 It is entirely conceivable that she just forgot her name as she was rewriting the story from memory many years after the fact and after her mother dies.

I have some questions I would love to share with you and I sent them to your niece. If you would like to contact me I would like to talk them over with you as well.

Best Regards,
Laurie

Hello Laurie!

I just saw your reply today, I would love to discuss this with you! I'll send you my email address in a PM.

I look forward to hearing back from you,

Best,

Sean