Author Topic: Courts Martial – Waterloo :  (Read 217 times)

Offline Iain...

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Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« on: Tuesday 07 May 19 09:19 BST (UK) »
Good morning All…, I have a quick question for someone.
Please note that this is a follow-up to a post I made in 2015; unfortunately, I’m still no further ahead.
A ‘two-line’ update:  I’m writing and researching a book and a screenplay about my Battalion The Scots Guards at Waterloo.  Both are finished, however, one ‘hole’ remains and that presents the Courts Martial at Waterloo.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=712291.0;PHPSESSID=vq7evtq8qu1rj3cl899p7e1og5
I had suspended all research because a friend of mine (who knows the all details) suspended his publication until three other books are finished.  Unfortunately, I cannot wait that long !

I visited the Scots Guards archives at RHQ last October and I can’t tell you how much I was trembling when taking the HD photos of all three weeks of pages dating from the 16th of June. (the Battle was on he 18th)  However, to my dismay, upon my return to Belgium, I discovered that the Archive Sergeant had provided me with the events of the 1st Battalion on Public Duties in London. (and not my 2nd Battalion at Waterloo) 
Follow-up emails to RHQ give the impression that the 2SG book is missing !
In the meantime, reading all the 1SG images, 1SG Courts Martial in London are mentioned…, however, no details about the accusations or the verdicts are indicated; just the officers involved and the timings.

On to my question:
On active service in 1815 and relative to court case proceedings, the written details would have been registered where exactly ?
Even if I had been presented with my Regiment’s book, it would not have detailed the accusations, the proceedings or the penalties. (like the 1SG book in London)  As such, where is all that information archived ?
(please note that we are talking about the Brigade of Guards here and it’s not impossible that they could be a ‘law unto themselves’) 

I thank you in advance.  ;)
Kind Regards…, Iain.   
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
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Online Kiltpin

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 07 May 19 11:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Iain, 

I have gone through some of this while researching my father's wartime service with the Royal Engineers. When I enquired about gaps, I was told 'if the records are not all in the same place, it is because they don't exist'. And we are only talking about 80 years tops. 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

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Offline Iain...

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 08 May 19 09:53 BST (UK) »
Thank you Chas…

Hmmm…, “If the records are not in the same place”!  Don’t quite understand !

These records exist because I and others know about the Courts Martial and the verdicts ! I suppose I could compare the ‘Medal’s List’ with the Company Returns (attached - for the Light Company Scots Guards) however, that would just provide names and not the details. 
It is my intention to recover these medals for both Regiments as I believe that these men were badly represented in court and wrongly punished; however, the MOD will want to know the source.

In fact, as I mentioned earlier, I am playing with the idea that the ‘records are actually not in the same place’ but in some other archive other than RHQ.   

Thanks anyway…
Kind Regards…, Iain.
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline Keitht

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 08 May 19 11:51 BST (UK) »
Iain,

I presume you have tried both the National Archive and the British Library .

Keith

Offline Iain...

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 08 May 19 12:49 BST (UK) »
Thanks Keith...
I live in Belgium not far from Waterloo, however, I intend visiting London very soon and they are both on my list of things to see. 
In the meantime, friends are constantly there and they have found nothing. 

I was wondering if there existed a special archive for this type of regimental brigade sentencing ?
In the meantime I'm spending a lot of time on the British Newspaper Archive..., without much luck.  Might give Ancestry a try !

 ;)
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline Iain...

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 08 May 19 14:03 BST (UK) »
As you said Keith..., the National Archives does contain elements.
•   Judge Advocate General's Office: Field General Courts Martial and Military Courts, Registers
•   Judge Advocate General's Office: District Courts Martial Registers, Home and Abroad
•   Judge Advocate General's Office: General Courts Martial Registers, Confirmed at Home
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline Keitht

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 09 May 19 18:12 BST (UK) »
Are you looking for a particular individual's record? I so and you have a name and regiment it would be worth contacting the regimental museum to see what they know.

Offline Iain...

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 09 May 19 18:58 BST (UK) »
Thanks Keith...
Unfortunately, the Guards Museum and both RHQs at WelliB know absolutely nothing about it !!

..., Iain.

PS  As I hinted earlier:  In the late 1960's when I was in the Scots Guards, the 'grapevine' informed us that many books and doccuments were being sold off for a quick pint. 
As a result, General Sir Michael Gow 'confiscated' much of the contents and kept them in his house at Edinburgh for safe keeping.  It was only following his death that his son returned everything to SG-RHQ.
In the meantime, you can be certain that before digitalization, this must have been the case for nearly all archives !!

However...  When I was in London last year and in contact with the MOD, I was told in no uncertain terms that information published from stollen property is punishable !
Lol..., a complicated issue !!

 
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline Keitht

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Re: Courts Martial – Waterloo :
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 09 May 19 19:13 BST (UK) »
Lain,

In more than 20 years of trawling archives I have never ceased to be amazed at the number and scope of documents which have survived, nor by the places where they have ended up. Some times it's a matter of careful sleuthing and at others, and this has happened to me numerous times, it's purely a matter of sheer good luck.

Neither is ttime a barrier to discovery. I well recall the occasion when I posted a request for information on RootsChat and heard nothing for almost five years, after which someone came forward with a complete explanation and answer to my query.

As to the MOD's threat about publication of certain material, I have also received such threats. I have even been threatened with legal action for publishing photographs which were demonstrably out of copyright. My reaction in all such cases is, get on with it then. To date no-one has bothered.

Don't be discouraged and don't let them grind you down.