Author Topic: Hard Times  (Read 1012 times)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 09 May 19 17:02 BST (UK) »
I've just checked my great uncle's birth date (Reply #1).  He was born 28 February 1870, so he would have been just over 11 years on the 1881 census that I snipped. I'm not sure if it was written on the page as 11 and corrected to 12 or vice versa. 


Gadget 

Add - my grandmother, in my avatar, was his little sister.
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline josey

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 09 May 19 17:05 BST (UK) »
I think that there were more children working than it appears from census entries. I am sure many families wrote 'scholar' when in fact the child was working.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 09 May 19 17:12 BST (UK) »
The most common designation for children in the census was that of "scholar", the returns should, however, be used with caution. The definition of the term "scholar" in the census instructions was vague, and became vaguer with time. There was a tendency to use scholar as a blanket term for children whether they were at school or working, as well as the not uncommon cases of "scholars" aged under five years.
In 1851 parents were to record their children as "scholars" if they were above five years of age and were" daily attending school, or receiving regular tuition under a master or governess at home." In 1861, however, regular tuition at home did not require the presence of a master or governess. In 1871 and 1881 children only needed to be "attending a school, or receiving regular instruction at home" to be returned as scholars. In 1891 there was no instruction on the subject. In 1901, however the instruction was that children attending school "and also engaged in a trade or industry should be described as following the particular trade or industry." With the advent of compulsory education after the 1876 Elementary Education Act there may also have been a temptation for some working-class householders to use the term to conceal the work of their children.

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Erato

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 09 May 19 17:35 BST (UK) »
Sometimes it worked out well in the end.  My g-grandfather left school at 12 to take work as a grocer's delivery boy.  He worked his way up to grocer's assistant, then grocery commercial traveler and finally director of the wholesale grocery company.  When he died in 1930, he left a large house in Bristol, a Rolls Royce and 20,000.
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr

Offline josey

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 09 May 19 17:42 BST (UK) »
Thank you Stan, very informative as usual.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline cristeen

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 09 May 19 18:12 BST (UK) »
Sometimes it worked out well in the end.  My g-grandfather left school at 12 to take work as a grocer's delivery boy.  He worked his way up to grocer's assistant, then grocery commercial traveler and finally director of the wholesale grocery company.  When he died in 1930, he left a large house in Bristol, a Rolls Royce and 20,000.
Same for my G grandfather although left school at 14 & salmon fished for a couple of seasons before working as an errand boy (for the firm owned by some family friends) earning 5/- a week about 1898, by 1901 he was a warehouseman, 1911 a salesman and eventually managing director. He left over 25,000 when he died in 1953
On other lines I also have child workers, some as young as 8 and living away from the family. At least the farm workers got some fresh air, I really feel for the child miners and cotton mill workers :(
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.

Offline BillyF

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 09 May 19 19:21 BST (UK) »
Reply 8, sorry I just can`t do the quote thing !!

The Victorians had a lot to answer for ! Children as young as  7 underground, lungs being contaminated, being lamed etc, but good to hear of those ancestors who really were " self made

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 09 May 19 22:23 BST (UK) »
Reply 8, sorry I just can`t do the quote thing !!

The Victorians had a lot to answer for ! Children as young as  7 underground, lungs being contaminated, being lamed etc, but good to hear of those ancestors who really were " self made

For the relevant nineteenth century Acts regarding the employment of children in mines. See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=405956.msg2741639#msg2741639

Stan


Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BillyF

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Re: Hard Times
« Reply #17 on: Friday 10 May 19 14:58 BST (UK) »
Stan, reading a another entry on your 8# reply; one boy aged 16 had been down the mine 11 years. It`s almost incomprehensible.