Author Topic: Can't decipher the surname...  (Read 1617 times)

Offline bbart

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 00:40 BST (UK) »
Well that sounds rather intriguing... What is the source of your information?

13 March 1959 - Long Eaton Advertiser  Page 6 (column 4, lower third)

Title of article: £800 damage to Georgian House

The article talks about a fire that broke out in the roof of Dower House, London Rd, Shardlow on the previous Thursday.

An appliance (firetruck??) was sent from Long Eaton, and two from the Derby Borough, but due to the house structure and "situation of the fire" it was a difficult fire to put out, and before it was extinguished, 75% of the roof was gone, and an attic ceiling collapsed.

The firemen used two hose-reel, and two "fog" jets.

Person in occupation of the house was Mrs. Marion Booth.

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Offline overlandermatt

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 06:42 BST (UK) »
Oh wow. That sounds fairly serious. The house has three levels with the top floor in the attic. The large roof timbers have all been painted up there and it has been noted that some of these are not that old by a few professionals. The roof was previously re-slated and has new rafters so perhaps I have the reason why and the date. I never expected that when I was trying to decipher a name from an old record from the 1840s.

Thank you!

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Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 13:23 BST (UK) »
Hello Matt

According to some pdf information online for the 'Manor of Shardlow' the authors suggest the Manor House was on your area numbered 104 (No. 104 1910 Valuation Survey & Map Red numbering).
Your 1910 Valuation Survey extracts here ...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.msg6696139#msg6696139


Manor of Shardlow
http://www.derbyshireas.org.uk/DM19-06.pdf
Pdf page 3 has another Map of 1882 and they indicate in their Pdf that the Manor House and Grounds were Numbers 106 & 105 [on their Map]


Back to the 1910 Valuation Survey
According to the documents you have seen, they give the owner as Edward Sutton of No.188 (Red number) in the 1910 Valuation Survey.


Also noticed (from scrolling your posts) you mention the Fossbrooke family.


This is a very interesting Will (Proved 1831) of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire, confirming his Dwelling House with Coach House was called Broughton House and the second of the five pages (PCC Copy) goes on to mention other property in the vicinity, adjacent Field names, Cottages Dwellinghouses or Tenements near Cavendish Bridge and some other property at Aston upon Trent, Shares, etc.

Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills
PROB 11/1783/237
Will of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire
2nd March 1831
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D252845


You will see a reference to part being lately purchased from Leonard Fossbrooke Esq (double ff being capital F)

I am particularly interested in Thos Turner and William Hood, being near Warehouses and the River Trent.

 -----------

Shardlow was incorrectly spelt on Ancestry, but Canterbury Wills (PCC) are in their 'Card Catalogue' and can be found by Testators names and the year Proved date.

 ----------

In older Manor, Landowner documents and Wills, property such as Houses and Farms etc., are not always named, but your Tithe Apportionment hopefully gives field names and some fields were named in the Will?

Bear in mind sub-letting also went on and some Tenants renting one house may not be named, or might not even be resident when the Will was written.

 ----------

Looks like one of the Suttons was a Banker, so the Sutton family may have properties elsewhere and when this occurs surviving records relating to Family Estates (Surveys, Rentals & Accounts, which often name Tenantry), Marriage Settlements and any surviving Deeds and Sale Particulars, might be in other Record Offices outside of Derbyshire too?

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Online CarolA3

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 17:25 BST (UK) »
Here's the same name in the 1849 tithe record as occupier of the 'Old Homestead' (landowner was James Sutton Esq).

Quoting myself here as reply #23 might have been overlooked :)

Carol
OXFORDSHIRE / BERKSHIRE
Bullock, Cooper, Boler/Bowler, Wright, Robinson, Lee, Prior, Trinder, Newman, Walklin, Louch

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 19:46 BST (UK) »
Posted extract (above) of part of the Will of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire, 1831

 …
my Capital messuage or mansion house situate and being at Shardlow
aforesaid wherein I now reside and commonly called Broughton house
together with the Coach house three Stall stable gardens and orchard there
unto belonging and by me occupied and enjoyed therewith and also all
that my Close piece or parcel of land or ground situate lying and being at
or near Shardlow aforesaid and commonly called or known by the name
of Smith meadow and containing by estimation ten acres or thereabouts
together with the five several Cottages or dwellinghouses or tenements there
unto adjoining with the Gardens and appurts thereunto respectively belong
ing as now in the several occupations of Joseph Dickinson Robert Rat
cliffe William Smedley William Birkin and Robert Woodhouse and all
those three cottages dwellinghouses or tenements situate and being in a
piece of land near Cavendish Bridge called Ducds [Ducks?] piece with the appurts
thereunto belonging as now in the several occupations of [struck through]
Thomas Turner William Hood and Thomas Winfield Boat Captain
and also all those two other closes pieces or parcels of land or ground situate
lying and being at or near Shardlow aforesaid and containing by estima
tion eight acres or thereabouts and also the Cottage dwellinghouse or tene
ment with the barn stable and Garden thereunto belonging and which
I lately purchased from Leonard ffosbrooke Esq’r as now in the several occupa
tions of John Deakin widow Radcliffe to hold the same to and for the
use of her my said wife and her assigns until any tenancy which may
be existing at my decease in my mansion house and heredits herein
after mentioned and devised situate at Aston upon Trent shall have
 …


Regarding my reference to Thomas Turner and William Hood those two characters might turn out to be of personal interest in my own research, as the River Trent links up to the River Humber in Yorkshire.

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline bbart

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 20:57 BST (UK) »
Matt, in your other thread, reply #23, you said:

All I can say for sure is that John Hogg lived at the house at this time - presumably the house was rented from Edward Sutton.

If you have proof that John Hogg lived there, then it was definitely called The Villa in that time period.  There are multiple newspaper articles to back that up, which I will reference if you are positive he lived there.
However, before his time there, I think the house had a different name, which I am still working on!

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 23:02 BST (UK) »
Matt, in your other thread, reply #23, you said:

All I can say for sure is that John Hogg lived at the house at this time - presumably the house was rented from Edward Sutton.

If you have proof that John Hogg lived there, then it was definitely called The Villa in that time period.  There are multiple newspaper articles to back that up, which I will reference if you are positive he lived there.
However, before his time there, I think the house had a different name, which I am still working on!

Hello

According to the 1910 Valuation Survey and Map shown us by Matt, John A Hogg was indeed shown as occupying the plot numbered 188 (in Red) on the 1910 Valuation Map and 1910 Apportionment, per Matt's photos.

The 1911 Census for Gt Wilne and Shardlow appears to confirm his name as John Augustin Hogg, 41 years, a General Medical Practitioner, born circa 1870 at Warwickshire, Edgbaston

In the 1901, John A Hogg, aged 33 is again on the London Road, Shardlow and has been entered in the Census after the Dog & Duck Inn.

Hogg is presumably the same man who appears in some Inquest Reports, which would figure, being a G.P.

 ----------

In 1910 the Sutton family do seem to own some properties and land in the area, including the property numbered 188 (Red numbering) on the 1910 Valuation Survey & Map, which is opposite the Dog & Duck

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline bbart

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 23:17 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that, Mark!
There are multiple articles on John Augustus Hogg, physician, of The Villa, Shardlow.

After rabbit hunting one day in 1914, he went home (to The Villa), and cleaned his guns. Unfortunately, he didn't check to make sure they weren't loaded....  :(

I had tracked the census taker around from the 1901/1911 censuses, and was confident the house was the Villa, as others have noted, but I just needed that last bit to confirm.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 14 May 19 23:33 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that, Mark!
There are multiple articles on John Augustus Hogg, physician, of The Villa, Shardlow.

After rabbit hunting one day in 1914, he went home (to The Villa), and cleaned his guns. Unfortunately, he didn't check to make sure they weren't loaded....  :(

I had tracked the census taker around from the 1901/1911 censuses, and was confident the house was the Villa, as others have noted, but I just needed that last bit to confirm.

bbart

Being shown as renting a property or main Occupier and actually occupying it / living there, in my experience is definitely not always the same. It is not unusual to find people living in one house, but also renting another nearby and sub-letting the one they are renting to family or someone else.

Unfortunately no house name in either Census.

Added: The Doctor could be renting 188 simply for the field for his horse/s to graze in and then letting the house to someone else. No Mercs or Jags back then for the Doc  ;D

Let's not jump the gun yet  ;D

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.