Author Topic: Can't decipher the surname...  (Read 1449 times)

Online Ruskie

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #45 on: Thursday 16 May 19 02:55 BST (UK) »
A new member has contributed to Matt's other thread and they believe that The Villa = Dower House.

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Offline bbart

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #46 on: Thursday 16 May 19 08:38 BST (UK) »
A new member has contributed to Matt's other thread and they believe that The Villa = Dower House.

And now poor Matt will be ripping his house apart looking for priest holes and secret cellars!
Thanks for posting that, Ruskie; I hadn't posted over there, so no notifications.

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Online Ruskie

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #47 on: Thursday 16 May 19 08:56 BST (UK) »
A new member has contributed to Matt's other thread and they believe that The Villa = Dower House.

And now poor Matt will be ripping his house apart looking for priest holes and secret cellars!
Thanks for posting that, Ruskie; I hadn't posted over there, so no notifications.

Of course! Itís only natural!  :)
Itís all very exciting isnít it?

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 16 May 19 10:09 BST (UK) »
Hello

For the House name, I think this may need more research and to see whether the house name was changed, or even changed back to an old name.

 ...

Mark

Hello

It does look to be a house with two names during the 20th Century, The Villa / The Dower House.

Thank you Matt and all, most interesting.

Matt also mentioned the field was called The Old Homestead 18th Century, Reply 37
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812640.msg6734369#msg6734369
Useful when Matt gets back into the Landowner and/or Manor documents, where they have survived.


Link to the other thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.msg6735051#msg6735051
Reply 24

The poster referred to an old listing too.

Matt,Probate Wills from 1858 to current (pdf copies) can be purchased online for £10 or from HM Probate Registries / Courts Service, their site is a gov.uk website.

If you require a stamp embossed Copy, we use to apply through the Priory Courts, Birmingham (our nearest Probate Registry).

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #49 on: Thursday 16 May 19 12:13 BST (UK) »
Some possible sources for researching the family, which might mention their Property, Lands or Tenantry.

Sutton of Shardlow
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Sutton%20of%20Shardlow&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv

Clifford of Shardlow (have links with the Sutton family)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Clifford%20of%20Shardlow&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv

Estate Surveys and Rentals and some Accounts, mention Property and Tenantry, or Deeds when the Estate changes hands. Also Wills.

Sometimes when a wealthy Estate married another wealthy Estate, the couple would have a Marriage Settlement to establish property rights in the event of death etc., that kind of thing.

Some Record Offices may have uncatalogued items, but hopefully Handlists (a summary by Document title with a Catalogue ref only). Landed families often had property and lands in many counties.

It can be a lengthy business checking and not often fruitful, but when you find something linked, it is a real gem.

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline bbart

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #50 on: Thursday 16 May 19 19:35 BST (UK) »
Itís all very exciting isnít it?

I was absolutely thrilled to read Glynno's post! I have been working on a time line of articles/names associated with the house, and when it is ready to post (my notes are such a mess to sort out!), I think I will post it in the other thread.

Mark - you seem to be very knowledgeable about all these old houses, so I have a question for you.  Does it make any sense that house would be renamed to "Dower House" if in fact, it was not a dower house, in the true sense of the word? Also, wouldn't there have to be Council approval, which I have seen in other areas, or some other legal formalities? I do believe the house had a different name in the early 1800's, so any advice would be welcome!

Circling back now, to the original question of this post.
The Charles Thorold living in the house in 1851 with his wife and sisters was not living there in 1841.  Although a similar surname, I don't think it was him.
Charles Thorold was the son of Benjamin Hart Thorold, and Charles and two sisters were living in Harmston in 1841.  He's very easy to track, as it was a rather well known family.
Charles died very young, and there is a mini-bio on his findagrave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/130547759

There is, in Belper and surrounding areas, a Thrall family.  I have seen it misspelled as Thrawle, Thrawell, etc... but it seems most went by Thrall.  I have yet to find a Charles Thrall who's occupation would lead one to believe they would live there, but I haven't looked overly hard either.  Most seem to be in the silk industry, as dyers, etc.  It may not be this family, but it's a name to keep on the back burner!

Matt, your house has been so much fun to work on!  Any other discoveries, and hopefully a timeline, I will post in the other thread!

Offline overlandermatt

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #51 on: Thursday 16 May 19 21:29 BST (UK) »
I agree that it is really exciting! So much has been learned from posting the original question about a signature.

The Charles Thorold connection is fascinating. He was young (25) in the 1851 census and there with a wife and sisters. It was his name in the Tithe Apportionment book from the 1840s (not sure which year - I have notes suggesting 1840 but I would need to check). There will no doubt be a story behind how he left Harmston at such a young age and found himself in Shardlow... 

I hope to find out some more details of previous inhabitants next week - hopefully I will be meeting Glynn's father who has some of the paper deeds.

Thanks again to everyone for their efforts here.

Matt
 

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #52 on: Friday 17 May 19 22:15 BST (UK) »

Also, wouldn't there have to be Council approval, which I have seen in other areas, or some other legal formalities? I do believe the house had a different name in the early 1800's, so any advice would be welcome!


Hello

Council Planning Departments usually had a Card Index by property address (ours did), listing any old Planning Application title/s, date/s and the respective Planning Reference Number/s, if any applications (before computerisation). Council Planning Departments should still have these Card Indexes and Planning Files, as there was a requirement mid 20th Century (before computerisation) to retain Planning records, in England.


Regarding Street naming and numbering two Acts are:-

Towns Improvement Clauses Act 1847
Sections 64 & 65.

The Public Health Act 1925
Sections 17, 18 and 19.


If a House is in a Conservation Area or formerly/currently a Listed Building, worth checking those Planning Applications too (if any were noted).

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline bbart

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Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« Reply #53 on: Friday 17 May 19 23:29 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that information, Mark! 

After Dr. Hogg passed away, it looks like Dr. Sydney Gay and wife moved in.  In 1919 she is selling off all the furniture and in 1920 Dr Gay passes away at age 52.  (Sources: 13 December 1919 - Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal  and 03 January 1920 Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal )

I'm trying to get the timing of the name change to see if perhaps Mrs. Gay was the "dower" if indeed there was one.

Thanks again!