Author Topic: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw  (Read 5567 times)

Offline Dan Culp

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Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« on: Sunday 12 May 19 16:02 BST (UK) »
There are a lot of mysteries surrounding my McCarthy family from Lixnaw, but here is one in particular that I'm hoping for help on because it has a UK angle, and I might have less access to the relevant records than some of you here.

Basically, there was Thomas McCarthy, born 1865 in Lixnaw.  Son of Denis McCarthy and Catherine Stack.  He married Mary Lawlor from Irrebeg in 1895.  He seems to disappear immediately after.  BUT...I found this family in Lixnaw in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Lixnaw/Lixnaw/1421650/

I believe the lodgers to be Thomas's wife and children, indicating that they had been living in London.  Most likely they are visiting in connection with Thomas' mother's death 6 weeks earlier.  Thomas himself is missing, as is the man of the house, Michael Sullivan, who grew up as a neigbor to the McCarthys and whose brother Patrick was the godson of Thomas. 

I'm mainly wondering if anyone can find any English or other records of this family group other than on the 1901 census.  So far I've had no luck.  I found a Thomas Percy McCarthy who could be the younger Thomas, but it is out of context with his family, so I can't verify it to be him.  He seems to have been an inmate at an orphanage or poor house or somesuch thing.

PS- The biggest problems with assuming this to be Thomas' family would be that a) Mary's age would be off by about 6 years.  Of course her age was reported by the head of household, who was not a close relative, so that's not altogether surprising.  The second son being named John J. is a bit problematic from a naming tradition standpoint.  Denis T. (presumably Thomas or Timothy) is spot on as the expected name of Thomas' first son, since Thomas' father was Denis.  The third son would likewise make sense as Thomas, after the father.  John was the name of a younger brother of Thomas, but that spot would tend to go to Mary's father, whose name was Timothy.  In addition, if it were to fall to a brother's name, one would expect it to be Patrick (after Thomas' oldest brother) or Denis (after his oldest brother that I am certain survived to adulthood).  But since Denis is already taken, Daniel would be the next oldest brother aside from Thomas himself.

Online MaureeninNY

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 12 May 19 16:43 BST (UK) »
Not sure but there are these births from GRO:

MCCARTHY, JOHN  JOSEPH     mmn LAWLOR   
 1898  J Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 678

  MCCARTHY, THOMAS  PATRICK    mmn   LAWLOR   
 1900  M Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 579

Maureen
 
 


Offline Sinann

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 12 May 19 16:46 BST (UK) »
Tried to find children of those name with mother Stack on the UK GRO but I couldn't find them
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
You need to register but it's free.

Have you reason to believe the family returned to Ireland to live?

Edited to add
Blaaa guess it would help if I had the mother's name correct.

Online MaureeninNY

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 12 May 19 17:02 BST (UK) »
And this one:
MCCARTHY, DENNIS  TIMOTHY    mmn    LAWLOR   
: 1896  S Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 248 

Maureen

EDIT: ;D Sinann


Offline Dan Culp

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 12 May 19 18:08 BST (UK) »
Thank you thank you thank you!

That confirms that they are who I thought they were. 

Now the trick will be to find any of them in existence anywhere in the world after 1901, which so far I can't.  :(  If anybody has got the magic touch on that, several more thank yous would be in store.  Just sayin'.

Offline dathai

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #5 on: Monday 13 May 19 08:35 BST (UK) »
have you followed up on Stephen he too seems to have done a disappearing act
married Ellen Mcarthy in 1901
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ns9/
or
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10304/5750976.pdf

he and his sister Mary seem to have been the postmaster's up to about 1903 after which he appears on children's birth's as a labourer
Catherine 1902 as Kit on census
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01916/1743010.pdf

Mary 1903
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01873/1729623.pdf

Ellen 1909 as Eileen on census
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01597/1641999.pdf

1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Lixnaw/Lixnaw/1421665/



1911 missing
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Lixnaw/Lixnaw_Town__part_of_/273415/

his sister Mary also seems to be missing i dont see anything obvious for her nor a marriage

Offline Dan Culp

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #6 on: Monday 13 May 19 11:49 BST (UK) »
Thank you for engaging with me on this. 

Stephen was tricky as well, but I found his family back in Ireland and proceeded from there.  Just flew out to visit them last week, in fact.  I can't remember every detail, but I think I found a memorial mass or something for his son Denis in a church bulletin.  Then found his son's obit or something, and then his grave.  Asked the local church secretary if she knew any of his immediate family that might still be living, and Stephen's granddaughter and his grandson's widow happened to be living nearby.  From there, the living family helped me fill in the gaps on Stephen's girls, whose families have spread out to the four corners of the world by now.  Stephen himself died in England in 1959.

Stephen's brother John died in Ealing in 1953, and for a long time I thought his line was extinct, but his oldest daughter did have a daughter who now has a thriving family in the London area.

Ellen is my 3x great grandmother and relocated to St. Louis.

Patrick, the oldest, seems to disappear after his 1858 baptism.  May have died young, but I'm keeping an open mind on him.

Denis relocated to New York City and married Marie or Mary per family tradition, which is supported by a photo taken by Nellie's granddaughter of her visiting with him in Central Park in 1920.  Can't find any remotely matching record for him, though.

Thomas's trail, as discussed, goes cold after 1901.  I tried searching for additional kids in the GRO, but no luck, nor any later record for any of them that I can find.

Daniel also lived in NYC and married a Margarete per family tradition.  I have an 1897 picture of him randomly taken in New Orleans.  I've confirmed there is no matching person on any census of New Orleans.  I did find a possible match in Queens.  Had a daughter Marian and a son Daniel Vincent.  Died 1925.  Can't confirm it's him, as I haven't sprung for his death certificate yet.

Mary is said to have never married and stayed in Ireland.  Not sure why she can't be found in 1911.  The idea of trying to find her death certificate is pretty daunting given her extremely common name.

Unfortunately none of Stephen's descendants living in Ireland know about Stephen's siblings, despite their great-niece still being alive and relatively sharp.  I thought she might at least know Mary, but it turns out she spent a lot of her youth in England, so she wasn't nearby.


Offline dathai

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #7 on: Monday 13 May 19 14:03 BST (UK) »

Online MaureeninNY

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Re: Help with McCarthy Family of Lixnaw
« Reply #8 on: Monday 13 May 19 16:05 BST (UK) »
Would this be the family in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000024996/

Maureen