Author Topic: George Thomas Franklin  (Read 5824 times)

Offline cathymcc

  • I am sorry but my emails are not working.
  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 774
  • Sam & Hilda Worker
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 18 August 05 18:15 BST (UK) »
Karen,

He was much travelled which still makes me think 'soldier or sailor' but he may have been a tradesman or even gentry [I think the later is unlikely as there would be some land records]?

You could e mail Beds Archives and as if there are any Wills for FRANKLIN in Stotfold and the archivist will advise you...if you send them a copy of the letter, that will help them too?

Just a thought...the trade directories were not too good in the early 19th C but here is the link: http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp

Bedfordshire: Worker [Flitton]; Ames [Kempston]; Manton [Kempston]; Morris [?]; Valentine [Kempston]; Two & Osborn [Cranfield]

Herfordshire and West London: Brown [Kent in early 19th C]; Blackwell.
McCarthy [Clonakilty, County Cork - searching for needles in the haystack!] and LOSTY [Dublin]

Offline k.bart

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 24 August 05 22:22 BST (UK) »
Hi David, Cathy and Janan,
I got a copy of Thomas Franklin and Alice Cousins (Healy) marriage certificate today so I thought I would update you with what I have learned from it.  They married on January 20, 1861 at St. Mary's Chapel in Westminster, Middlesex.  Both of their addresses at the time of the wedding were in Pimlico.  Thomas's occupation was listed as a Labourer and she was shown to be a widow.  According to the certificate he was 30 years old at the time and she was 32 so I guess that would make their birth years 1831 and 1829 respectively.  Thomas's father's name was John Franklin (deceased) and his occupation was listed as a Labourer.  Her father was also named John also deceased but while alive he made his living as a Cattle Dealer.  Since I know that she was born in Limerick, Ireland would it make sense to suggest that perhaps she may have come to England with her father on a business trip?  I don't know how much cross border business was happening at the time nor if it was feasible to move cattle from one country to another. 

I did a quick census check for Franklins in Bedfordshire in 1851 with a head of household named John with a son named Thomas and found one possibility that looks plausible.  A large Franklin farm family from Houghton Conquest shows a 20 year old Thomas with a slightly older brother named John, no father on site but many sibblings and a mother named Elizabeth.  Possibly the older son named John might have been named after the father who in this census is obviously deceased.  In the back of my mind Stotfold keeps rolling around because that is the name that is on the notarized letter written by my great grandfather Alex Franklin on August 16, 1915.

Any and all thoughts or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

My best to you all,
Karen

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,243
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 25 August 05 05:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Karen

Thanks for the update.

In 1841 the Houghton Conquest family was headed by John, 50 farmer (not labourer). But in 1861 the family which was headed by John 38 consisted of numerous of his siblings including Thomas 30 unmarried, farmer. The census was taken on 7 April 1861 so he should have been married with Alice in tow at that date. The farm was 175 acres and employed 5 men and 2 boys so was a pretty substantial operation. It looks to me as though the Houghton Conquest Thomas may unfortunately be a red herring.

What were the Pimlico addresses on the marriage cert? Possibly only accomodation addresses but who knows. It would be worthwhile trying to see who was at the address 2 months after their marriage.

I'll recheck Stotfold for John Franklins in 1851 and I'll be back later

Regards

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell


Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,243
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 25 August 05 07:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Karen

Let’s take a step back and look at that notarised 1915 document. Alexander, son of Thomas, having lived  in Canada all his adult life, born on the Isle of Wight, is not out of the blue going to invent the fact that his father was from Stotfold Bedfordshire. This is something he must have got from his parents, so there has to be at least a grain of truth in the statement.

I think I mentioned to you off board that whilst there were no Franklins in Stotfold in 1841 there were a number in Stotfold in 1851 born at Langford which is only 3 miles away.

I’ve looked closer at these in the light of the information on the marriage cert.

In 1851 in Stotfold there is
John Franklin head marr 61 Chelsea pensioner born Southill Beds
Sarah Franklin wife 56 charwoman b Northill Beds
James Franklin son 21 ag lab b Langford
Sarah Franklin dau 17 b Langford

Also in Stotfold
Thomas Franklin head marr 23 ag lab b Langford
Philis Franklin wife 26 b Stotfold
Mary Franklin 9 mths b Stotfold

BVRI has a christening of Thomas Franklin at Langford, son of John and Sarah, on   2 Sept 1827. “George’s” age in the 1881 Canadian census was 52 as at 4 April. So he could have been born 5 Apr 1828 – 4 Apr 1829, which is close to the 1829 date mentioned in the 1915 document, and pretty close to the 1827 date.

In 1861 in Stotfold there is
Phillis Franklin head marr 36 b Stotfold
Plus children Mary 10, Emma 9, Elizabeth 6, Joseph 3

No sign of Thomas in 1861 or any subsequent census. The description of Phillis as head implies that her husband wasn’t just away for the day the census was taken. And John was also missing in Stotfold in 1861 – deceased?

Doubtless you see where I’m leading!

Was the 1861 marriage bigamous? Not unheard of! Particularly in London, then they moved down to the Isle of Wight and then moved to Canada. Well away from a wife in Stotfold.

It would have too much of a good thing to have found Alice Cousins living in Stotfold in 1851, but she wasn’t!

Purely a flight of fancy I know, but it’s the best I can come up with. As all of the detective stories used to say “cherchez la femme”! Oh that they could be found in 1861, but I cannot see them. Perhaps they deliberately avoided the enumerator.

OK, that’s enough fiction for today!

Regards

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline k.bart

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 25 August 05 08:09 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your input David.  I really appreciate your help.
Re the Pimlico addresses ...
Thomas was living at 6 Robert Street.
Alice Cousins (Healy) was living at 21 Caledonia Street.
They probably weren't there very long because I have a copy of their son Alexander's birth certificate and he was born November 5, 1862 at Fort Place, Sandown, Isle of Wight.

I feel like I am making a little headway.   :-\
Karen

PS - I just this minute got your second note.  Some great food for thought there, David!  I could scan the notarized letter and send it to you so that you could see it for yourself but first you will have to tell me if I can send attachments through this site.


Offline janan

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,089
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 25 August 05 17:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Karen
Just some further thoughts
Have been having another look at the couple staying in Finsbury in 1861. The family they are staying with are John Tate 56 Stableman and Hepzibah Tate 53 both born Bedfordshire.  The children are unfortunately born Middlesex but they could have just been in Beds in 41 - if it was Stotfold ??? The ages of Thomas and Mary are possibly just estimates by the head of house ? And maybe Alice was known as Mary? A line worth investigating  :-\ Can't find the couple on later censuses.

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,243
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 25 August 05 18:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Jan/Karen

In 1871 the Tates' birthplace was given as Eton, Beds, which could be Eaton Socon or Eaton Bray. According to the IGI there was a Hephzibah Franklin baptised in Eaton Socon in Dec 1807, and there were a lot of Franklins born Eaton Socon in the 1871 census.

Unfortunately I don't think these are the right Thomas Franklin and Irish wife.

Regards

David

PS There is a marriage in Eaton Socon on the IGI in 1833 between Hephziba Franklin and Thomas Teat and a baptism of Thomas in 1820. Thomas and Hephzibah were brother and sister by the look of it - parents Thomas and Ann
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline janan

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,089
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 25 August 05 19:40 BST (UK) »
Ah well David/Karen  it was worth a try  ;D  Anyway that's yet another Thomas Franklin ruled out in 61.
Cheers Jan  ;)
Like the bigamy idea  ;D
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline k.bart

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: George Thomas Franklin
« Reply #17 on: Friday 26 August 05 06:42 BST (UK) »
Hi All,
Three cheers for the bigamy idea!!!   ;D  ;D  ;D
I need something to spice up my family tree!

Karen