Author Topic: Chelsea pensioner record, help with interpretation  (Read 70 times)

Offline cristeen

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Chelsea pensioner record, help with interpretation
« on: Wednesday 15 May 19 16:28 BST (UK) »
My first foray into these records and some advice required! I have this record for Matthew Wilkes and wanted to check that I had interpreted this correctly.
I understand that he was 45 years old, a gun smith from Wednesbury Stafford, and had served 21 1/3 years with 16th Dragoons. He was twice injured in America, worn out in the service. Admitted 1st August 1796.
There is an extra snippet which I think reads 'since 7 yrs in Life Guards'
Does this mean he served with the Life Guards after discharge from the 16th Dragoons? There is a transcription on Anc showing Matthew Wilkes discharged from 2nd Life Guards 3rd Feb 1804 which (if it's the same man) implies he served after discharge from 16th Dragoons.
My other question is how I can find out whether Matthew was an' in' Chelsea Pensioner or an 'out'
I'm a little confused that a man would be discharged as unfit to then serve another 7 years with a different regiment.
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.

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Online MaxD

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Re: Chelsea pensioner record, help with interpretation
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 17:04 BST (UK) »
He was an out pensioner.  Although the record you show is for all pensioners, there is another record on Ancestry (in Fold3) which comes from National Archives  WO 116 which was for out pensioners.  It certainly says "since served...." which suggest that the 1804 man is him re-entering the service.  He wasn't discharged unfit, he was unfit when he was discharged which is different!  He had served a full 21 plus years which was the normal full service term for a pension.

MaxD
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Offline philipsearching

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Re: Chelsea pensioner record, help with interpretation
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 17:10 BST (UK) »
x-ref to related post: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812880

Combining information from both posts, Matthew's timeline seems to be:
Born c1745
Bapt 1755 Darlaston,  Staffs.
Locksmith, son of a locksmith.
1775: Joined 16th (Royal Lancers or Queens Lancers or Dragoons?)
Fought in American War of Independence (wounded twice).
1779: Returned to England.
1782: Married in Walsall, Staffs.
1787: son Thomas baptised in Bloxwich, Staffs.
1789: [? left 16th after 14 years, signed on 7yrs with Life Guards?]
1792-96: Served in Flanders.
1796: retired from Army after 21 years 4 months.
1806: Buried in Bloxwich, Staffs 17 Sep.


Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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Offline cristeen

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Re: Chelsea pensioner record, help with interpretation
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 17:14 BST (UK) »
He was an out pensioner.  Although the record you show is for all pensioners, there is another record on Ancestry (in Fold3) which comes from National Archives  WO 116 which was for out pensioners.  It certainly says "since served...." which suggest that the 1804 man is him re-entering the service.  He wasn't discharged unfit, he was unfit when he was discharged which is different!  He had served a full 21 plus years which was the normal full service term for a pension.

MaxD
Thank you MaxD,  had just looked into the records further & discovered he was an out pensioner :)
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.

Offline cristeen

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Re: Chelsea pensioner record, help with interpretation
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 May 19 17:16 BST (UK) »
x-ref to related post: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812880

Combining information from both posts, Matthew's timeline seems to be:
Born c1745
Bapt 1755 Darlaston,  Staffs.
Locksmith, son of a locksmith.
1775: Joined 16th (Royal Lancers or Queens Lancers or Dragoons?)
Fought in American War of Independence (wounded twice).
1779: Returned to England.
1782: Married in Walsall, Staffs.
1787: son Thomas baptised in Bloxwich, Staffs.
1789: [? left 16th after 14 years, signed on 7yrs with Life Guards?]
1792-96: Served in Flanders.
1796: retired from Army after 21 years 4 months.
1806: Buried in Bloxwich, Staffs 17 Sep.


Philip
Thanks for the cross reference Philip. Mathew was actually discharged in 1796 and served 7 years with Life Guards until 1804. He didn't get much of a retirement!
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.