Author Topic: looking for Smales  (Read 757 times)

Offline garstonite

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,551
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 16 May 19 06:10 BST (UK) »
Hiya Kim - Smales is an old Lancashire name  ie
Marriage: 1 May 1604 St Luke (formerly St Wilfrid), Farnworth (Widnes), Lancashire, England
Willmus Robinson - par. de Tarvin
Elizabetha Smale - de Widnes
    Source: Private Transcription

Widnes is 5 miles from Liverpool Airport
this record is 40 years before the English Civil War

On 14 June 1645, parliament’s New Model Army, under the command of Sir Thomas Fairfax, Oliver Cromwell and Philip Skippon, utterly defeated Charles I’s main field army at the battle of Naseby. As every history of the Civil War attests, it was a decisive engagement: one which resulted in the destruction of the king’s veteran infantry force, the flight of his cavalry and the capture of his baggage-train, together with all of his personal correspondence. What is too often forgotten is that the battle of Naseby also resulted in perhaps the single worst atrocity of the Civil War in England, for, as the victorious Parliamentarian soldiers pursued their beaten enemies from the field, they fell upon the king’s female camp-followers, who, having seen that the day was lost, had set off in headlong flight towards the royalist garrison at Leicester. According to a later account, the parliamentarian troopers caught up with the terrified fugitives ‘in the south part of Farndon-field, within the gate place in the road between Naseby and Farndon’. Here a dreadful slaughter ensued, as the soldiers set about the Royalist women with their swords, killing at least a hundred of them, and savagely mutilating many more. In the aftermath of the battle, parliamentarian pamphleteers in London made no apology for what their soldiers had done, but rather triumphed in their murderous actions: some claiming that the killed and injured women had been ‘whores’, others that they had been Irish women, ‘wives of the bloody rebells in Ireland’, who had – according to earlier, exaggerated, accounts – slain thousands of Protestant men and women during the Irish Rebellion of 1641.
RE the slaughter of Royalist Women - 6 Smale children were left orphaned as Cromwell killed their mother ...
the surname Smale is Norwegian according to Wikitionary - so presumably Viking origin
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline philipsearching

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,366
  • I was a beautiful baby, - what went wrong?
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 16 May 19 11:40 BST (UK) »
Having now found an online tree, I suspect everything found on here was already known.

And we all know how reliable(?) some online trees are!  ;D ;D

I think we need a response from kimsmale to clarify what is needed. 

Hello I am researching the Smale's that came from England. Alfred who came over through Catholic Immigration in 1901 my great uncle, and my grandfather Henry Smale who came over in 1911. They settled in  Stratford Ontario.
 
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,241
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 16 May 19 11:56 BST (UK) »
What I meant was that the well-researched online tree I found looks likely to belong to kimsmale, and if so kimsmale already knows everything which I posted upthread.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline kimsmale

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 16 May 19 13:31 BST (UK) »
Hello I do have their births in England and Henry's marriage to Santina. What I don't have is what happened to Alfred ater he came to Canada in 1901. The next time I find him presumbly is in 1915 with his attestation papers. The only issue is that His name says Alfred Patrck Vincent Smale and his baptisim record that I found only says Alfred. When he came to Canada, could whoever he was placed with added the names or maybe the church rebaptise him. I am trying to verify that I have the right papers for Alfred
Thanks

Offline avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,241
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 16 May 19 13:38 BST (UK) »
When Alfred Patrick Vincent Smale married Catherine Mary Franciss in Ottawa in 1923, he named his parents as John Smale and Elizabeth Wilson, of London, England.  Not a perfect match for the known details, but the “Wilson”, together with the relative rarity of the Smale name, would incline me to think that this was your Alfred.

At the time of his marriage on 24 May 1923 he was a 35 yr old bachelor working as an orderly at St Luke’s Hospital, Ottawa.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,228
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #14 on: Friday 17 May 19 00:05 BST (UK) »
The next time I find him presumbly is in 1915 with his attestation papers. The only issue is that His name says Alfred Patrck Vincent Smale and his baptisim record that I found only says Alfred. When he came to Canada, could whoever he was placed with added the names or maybe the church rebaptise him. I am trying to verify that I have the right papers for Alfred
.
Whom did attestation papers name next-of-kin?
Patrick or Vincent may have been a Confirmation name. Which name(s) are on his birth registration?
Was he in a children's home/orphanage or an industrial or training or residential school before or after emigration? I've seen sacramental registers of a Catholic boy's home in England from this era. Most of the boys were conditionally baptised a few days before their Confirmation and First Communion. As their parents were either dead or absent, there was nobody to ask if the boys had  been baptised as infants.
If Alfred had been separated from his family since he was young, he may have been unsure whether he had a middle name or else he invented one. It was rare but not unknown for a priest to add a middle name.
Cowban

Offline kimsmale

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #15 on: Friday 17 May 19 02:06 BST (UK) »
Alfed has listed his brother Henry in Collingwood Ontario as his next of kin. What I can tell from a friend looking info up for me at national archives Alfred went to a farm in Quebec but I have not been able to prove through census. I was wondering if maybe he was baptised when he arrived here in Canada and that whoever met him here gave him another name.

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,228
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #16 on: Friday 17 May 19 19:51 BST (UK) »
What I can tell from a friend looking info up for me at national archives Alfred went to a farm in Quebec but I have not been able to prove through census. I was wondering if maybe he was baptised when he arrived here in Canada and that whoever met him here gave him another name.

Alfred's Confirmation would have taken place sometime between age 9 and mid teens. He would have chosen a saint's name as his Confirmation name, probably Vincent, the 3rd name. If the Confirmation ceremony happened in Canada or in a residential institution in England where there was no parent or other adult present to give information about Alfred's baptism, he may have had a 2nd, conditional baptism. Baptising priest might have added Patrick as Alfred wasn't a saint's name. If the priest was Irish he may have considered the name Alfred to be too English. Perhaps Alfred just liked the name Patrick.
Do you know the name of the organisation which arranged his emigration?
Cowban

Offline Ladyhawk

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,818
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: looking for Smales
« Reply #17 on: Friday 17 May 19 21:18 BST (UK) »

When Alfred Patrick Vincent Smale married Catherine Mary Franciss in Ottawa in 1923,
he named his parents as John Smale and Elizabeth Wilson, of London, England. 

Not a perfect match for the known details, but the “Wilson”, together with the relative rarity of the Smale name, would incline me to think that this was your Alfred.

At the time of his marriage on 24 May 1923 he was a 35 yr old bachelor working as an orderly at St Luke’s Hospital, Ottawa.

Is this the same Alfred & Catherine/Kathleen SMALE on Electoral Register?

Alfred Smale
Occupation:   Labourer
Year:   1940
Location:   Perth, Ontario, Canada
Mrs Alfred Smale
90 Falstaff Street

Alfred Smale
Occupation:   MacHinist
Year:   1945
Location:   Perth, Ontario, Canada
City of Stratford
Mrs Alfred Smale
139 Grange Street

Alfred Smale
Occupation:   Helper
Year:   1949
Location:   Perth, Ontario, Canada
City of Stratford
Mrs Catherine Smale
139 Grange Street

Alfred  Smale Retired
Year:   1957
Location:   Perth, Ontario, Canada
Mrs Kathleen Smale
28 Falstaff Street

Alfred Smale - Retired
Year:   1968
Location:   Perth, Ontario, Canada
Electoral District of Perth  City of Stratford
Mrs Kathleen Smale
28 Flastaff Street

Alfred Smale - retired
Year:   1972
Location:   Perth; Wilmot, Ontario, Canada
Cawston  Street, Apt 61 103
Mrs Kathleen Smale