William Hargreaves married to Elizabeth Pickles in Great Harwood, Lancashire 183

[Maiden Stone]

Other sources to think about.
1. Newspapers:
  a. Family notices - marriage of children, deaths of William, Elizabeth and children.
  b. Adverts and business news in case William belonged to a Hargreaves family firm of drapers.
Local newspaper collections are only partially indexed.
Lancashire Library Service is under Lancashire County Council.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/libraries
From the Libraries and Archives page go to 'Digital Library' and then 'Newspapers old and new'. See 'Red Rose Collections' > About the Collections. See also British Library Newspapers 1730-1950 (Gale newspaper library) The latter contains some Lancashire newspapers; membership of some public and academic libraries allows remote access.
An indexed newspaper collection is on Find My Past.

2. Local directories, e.g. Pigot's, Slaters.
Primarily to look for a Hargreaves drapers. Some directories include farmers.

3. Tithe records. Tithes were a tax on land payable to Church of England. There was a land survey & valuation in England mid 19thC. Lancashire Archives collection is indexed, searchable by occupier's surname. Tithe records and maps are on 'The Genealogist'.

4. Wills. Searchable by name in Lancashire Archives online catalogue. Also on other sites.

There are still libraries in Great Harwood and Haslingden. Lancashire Volunteer Partnership has a notice online (undated) seeking volunteers interested in local family history to be present at Great Harwood Library.

[Pennines]

Unfortunately as Rowena lives abroad she won't be able to join Lancashire library. I am sure this has cropped up before.

I did look at the on line newspapers on British Newspaper Archive but nothing cropped up for him. He literally 'disappears'.

I am wondering -- and I know it's grasping at straws - but because the marriage license says he is from the parish of Haslingden -- I wonder if they actually mean that, or because Haslingden was a Poor Law Union for the surrounding areas (even including Accrington) -- did they mean that?

If he was from Haslingden and she was from Great Harwood - how did they meet? They are not adjacent townships by any means. He could have been born elsewhere and was simply resident in Haslingden at the time of the marriage -- but with such a common surname it would literally be guessing at a baptism for him unless there was something more concrete to go on.

[RowenaElce]

Maiden Stone & Pennines,

Thank you again for keeping my query in your thoughts. I really do appreciate all your help. 

So many more great ideas on where to look. I'm still working on the last batch you recommended but have a nice long list of places to check is great! I have started to delve into them, but so far, no luck. I am, however, optimistic that something will reveal itself in the long run even if it takes a while. That's okay with me.

I dug up a note that my grannie sent to me in 1986 when I asked about my great-grandmother, Kate Hargreaves. She was the daughter of James Hargreaves, oldest son to William & Elizabeth. it reads: "Kate Hargreaves came from an old Lancashire family who had a farm and skinning mill in Harwood Edge near Blackburn. The skinning mill was water powered and failed when steam came in. Her father was John Hargreaves and mother was Jane Smalley. There were 5 children (2 died young) and Jane died when Fred was born. The children were brought up by their grandmother - Elizabeth (Pickles) Hargreaves."

One other thought is that Fred (Charles Frederick - mentioned above) married an Annie Hargreaves from Burnley. He moved to Burnley after the marriage and in the 1911 census he is listed as a grocer & beer retailer. He seems to have taken over to profession from her father, Thomas Hargreaves.  I have not been able to connect the two families in any other way than this marriage, but I wonder if it's possible that our William came from this line of Hargreaves. Sometimes cousins do marry.

As for Haslingden, the one person that has come up as a DNA match to me through the Hargreaves family name has her descendant coming from Haslingden. They all seem to be in cotton mill/weaving occupations.

Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me, but I now have a long list of resources to check and some great leads. Thank you again. - Rowena

[Maiden Stone]

I dug up a note that my grannie sent to me in 1986 when I asked about my great-grandmother, Kate Hargreaves. She was the daughter of James Hargreaves, oldest son to William & Elizabeth. it reads: "Kate Hargreaves came from an old Lancashire family who had a farm and skinning mill in Harwood Edge near Blackburn. The skinning mill was water powered and failed when steam came in. Her father was John Hargreaves and mother was Jane Smalley. There were 5 children (2 died young) and Jane died when Fred was born. The children were brought up by their grandmother - Elizabeth (Pickles) Hargreaves."

Should that be spinning mill rather than "skinning mill"?

Was the wedding in 1861 at St. Bartholomew, Great Harwood?
John Hargreaves, full; cloth looker; Gt. Harwood
Jane Smalley, full; spinster; Gt. Harwood
Groom's father William Hargreaves, retired
(Transcription on LANOPC)
It seems that William may have been alive then, although not necessarily.

Have you seen the photo of Harwood Edge Farm and datestone "Edward and Anne Pickles 1767" on the Great Harwood website? It's under "History 1600-1800".  There's a picture of Dewhurst Farm and surroundings under "Harwood Moor". Dewhurst Farm is between Harwood Edge Farm and the area Harwood Edge.
GH website has a page about Great Harwood Charter Fair. It was an important fair; it lasted for a week, later reduced to 3 days, and people came from far & wide. "... flannels from Rochdale, fustians and calicoes from Blackburn and *Rossendale, blankets and baize from Bury, the friezes of the Yorkshire valleys and broadcloths of their more distant towns …"
* Haslingden is in Rossendale. Fairs were opportunities for single people to meet members of the opposite sex. (Haslingden had a cattle market until late 20thC - chance for farming families to meet.)
https://www.great-harwood.org.uk

Harwood Edge Farm and Harwood Edge were shown on Ordnance Survey map Lancashire sheet 63, surveyed 1844-6. Harwood Edge Farm is not far from Rishton and is NW of Tottleworth. Harwood Edge is W. of Great Harwood Lower Town. This map can be viewed online on National Library of Scotland website https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343952  Maps of 2 different dates can be viewed side-by-side.
Ordnance Survey map of Haslingden in NLS collection is https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343976
Haslingden area was surveyed 1844-5.

A map of Haslingden showing extent and boundaries on:
Rossendale Home page of Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Rossendale/index.html
and on GENUKI site https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Haslingden
You'll see that the northern parts of Haslingden are only a few miles south of the towns of Blackburn, Oswaldtwistle and Accrington.
Several turnpike roads were built or existing roads improved 1750s-1820s to make travel between towns in this part of Lancashire easier, such as Blackburn to Burnley (via Rishton) 1755; Haslingden - Blackburn (Grane Road) 1810; Blackburn - Accrington 1826 (branch of the Bury, Haslingden, Blackburn & Whalley Trust). Turnpike roads superseded pack-horse routes.

Cotton Town website is a good source for history, although it's about Blackburn and Darwen. www.cottontown.org
2 websites for Haslingden:
"Haslingden Old and New"
https://haslingdens.blogspot.com

Rossendale Branch of Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society
www.rossendale-fhhs.org.uk

[Pennines]

Maiden Stone, what fantastic information you have provided for Rowena.

I have just picked up her latest message and yours -- a great and helpful response.
Rowena I noticed you mentioned that most of the ancestors were in the cotton trade. Please forgive me if you already know this, but Lancashire was the 'hot bed' of the cotton industry -- it's climate and topography made it perfect for the trade which really boomed in the 1800s - although before that - people worked at home on their own looms before the industrial revolution started with machinery being invented and mills in the county being built.

There was a famous saying coined during the second world war 'Britain's bread hangs by Lancashire's thread' meaning that this county was really important in a financial sense because of the export of it's cottons. (Unfortunately this all came crashing down as other countries, such as India started their own manufacturing.)

You may be interested to know that one of the famous inventors of a machine to improve the speed and manufacture of cloth -- the Spinning Jenny -- was a James Hargreaves who lived in Stanhill, Oswaldtwistle -- near Blackburn, not far from Haslingden -- in fact between Haslingden and Great Harwood.

This doesn't help one jot with your actual query -- but don't be surprised about how many Lancashire people were involved in the cotton trade.

Just thought I would mention that -- haven't studied your latest piece of information - except to think how lucky you are to have someone from an earlier generation leave valuable information about other ancestors.

[Maiden Stone]

As the Hargreaves/Pickles family had a farm on the moor, they may have begun by spinning and weaving wool from their own sheep. It was a cottage industry, carried on in winter when there was less farming work. (Handloom weavers)  A few went on to build small mills, powered by fast-running moorland streams. There were many small farms and cottages in upland areas like Harwood Moor. Some farm labourers worked in mills in winter.
When mills began to be built in towns and working in the textile industry became a full-time job, towns like Haslingden expanded quickly. Some of the population growth was people moving from surrounding rural area. However, some mill-owners fetched workers from further afield e.g. Manchester to Crawshawbooth* (1820s); apprentices from London (and other places) to Samlesbury (late 18th-early 19thC). Lancashire textile production became dominated by cotton in 19th century, "King Cotton".
*Crawshawbooth is a mile or 2 from Haslingden.

A local group is Haslingden Roots, which I noticed on "Haslingden Old and New". A history exhibition is advertised.  There is an old Haslingden Roots website. Members have researched several surnames. Rev. Smalley of Darwen was mentioned. (Darwen is just S. of Blackburn and W. of Haslingden.)  Some Haslingden Roots members  belong(ed) to Rossendale branch of Lancashire FHHS.

I may have posted the map links before. Looking at the Great Harwood Ordnance Survey map, Blackburn Old Road seems to run by Harwood Edge (the place, not the farm). This becomes Whalley Old Road. Whalley was the centre of a large, ancient parish and the site of an abbey, destroyed at the Reformation. Until then it was a pilgrim destination. Pilgrims used old, upland paths over moors. Pack-horses would use the same routes.
Blackburn Easter Fair was mainly agricultural until 1830s; another venue for children of farming families to meet other young people.

[RowenaElce]

Not just more wonderful resources for me to check but also a much-needed history lesson in that area of Lancashire and the wool industry. You are amazing!! You can’t imagine how happy and humbled this makes me feel, knowing that you’re so willing to share all this knowledge with me.

You are correct regarding the 1861 wedding for John Hargreaves & Jane Smalley at St Bartholomew in Great Harwood. I’d love to know what it says for profession of John’s father after the word “retired”, but I cannot make it out. Another clue to our William Hargreaves that is alluding me. (see attached)

Thank you for asking about the 1767 date stone – I do have a picture of it, however I had not seen the photos of Harwood Edge Farm or Dewhurst Farm. It’s nice to put a picture to a place.

Your directions on where to look on the maps were spot on. I’ve seen those maps before while researching my Scottish relatives but had not thought to use them for England. Not knowing exactly where to look makes locating small places like farms hard. It’s so nice to find them now!

As I delve further and further into our family history, I realize how lucky I am that I kept some of the letters that my grannie sent to me. I’m also glad that I asked her so many questions about my ancestors as all that information would have been lost when she passed away in 1998 at the age of 95. Although some of her memories were mixed up, she got the main part of it correct, which is what really matters.

I’ve been able to trace the Smalley and Pickles families back a few more generations, or at least far enough that I’ve got more than enough work to keep me busy for years to come. William Hargreaves, on the other hand has been a thorn in my side for years.  I am grateful that I decided to try something new and post on this group chat site. This has been a very enlightening experience for me. All your help is greatly appreciated.

[Maiden Stone]

Re. William Harman's occupation. I think it's "Retired tradesman" but the final letter doesn't look like n. You could post it again on the 'Handwriting and deciphering' board so that someone who is an expert on old handwriting can look at it. Put a link to the source of the extract in case people want to examine the whole document to compare letters. Say that you already have a thread on about the family on the Lancashire board.
Transcription on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks has only 'Retired' so transcriber couldn't make it out.

The NLS map website was recommended to me by someone on another gen. forum whom I'd helped with Lancs. ancestors. I didn't know it had English maps. Several people on here have recommended it.

England's wealth was built on wool; that's why there is a seat in Parliament called the Woolsack. Wool production continued in Yorkshire after majority of Lancashire mills switched to cotton. Small-scale cotton production had been going on in parts of Lancashire since mediaeval times. Lancashire also had linen mills.   Silk was another textile industry in Lancs.
The women in your Pickles/Hargreaves family were long-lived.

[Pennines]

Gosh -- I can't make out that occupation either. I agree you put it on the Handwriting and Deciphering Board'. You will find that just by going to 'Forum' on the ribbon menu near the top of the screen and tabbing down till you come to it.

The last 3 letters look like 'may' -- could begin with 'Tra' -- if it was a small 't' !

I have looked down the list of old occupations for those beginning with letters 't' or 'H' -- but nothing springs out. William is a real nuisance!

Yes I agree wool was important to the country -- and people used to have to bury their deceased family members in wool or pay a fine!

However I still think that Lancashire is more famed for 'cotton' and Yorkshire for 'wool'.

Still cannot find a baptism for William with any certainty - concentrating on father being 'John' - I can only come up with one baptised in 1814 in Haslingden, abode 'Pitheads' (which sounds delightful!) - father John, a weaver and mother Jemima. However he seems too young.