Author Topic: William Hargreaves married to Elizabeth Pickles in Great Harwood, Lancashire 183  (Read 740 times)

Offline RowenaElce

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Hello,

I am trying to find out about my 3x ggf, William Hargreaves, as I am interested in finding a connection to a DNA match through this family line and we have been unable to figure it out.

I would love to find out when & where he was born, who his parents were and if he had any siblings.  If anyone can help me in my searching, I’d be very grateful.

Thank you in advance. - Rowena

What I do know is:

William Hargreaves married Elizabeth Pickles on 20th Sep 1831 in Great Harwood, Lancashire. He is listed as from the Parish of Haslingden and was a Draper and a Bachelor. He was of full age, but no date of birth or parents’ names are given.

William and Elizabeth had 3 children:
(1)   Rachel Hargreaves – b. 17 Aug 1832 at Great Harwood and d.? btw.1837-1841 (not on 1841 census)

(2)   John Hargreaves – b. 10 Oct 1834 at Great Harwood and d.? maybe 1915 (Q2) but can’t find 1911 census

(3)   Edward Hargreaves – b. 2 Feb 1837 at Great Harwood and d. Dec 1853 (buried 16 Dec 1853 at St. Bartholomew, Great Harwood)
•   All three children were baptised on 5 March 1837 at St. Bartholomew, in Great Harwood.

1841 Census does not show William Hargreaves, but it has Elizabeth Hargreaves (25 - married), John (6) and Edward (4) all living at Harwood Edge in Great Harwood. Also listed there are her sister Esther (35) with her husband, Henry Woolstanholme (35 – Stone Mason) and their four children (ages 12, 10, 7, 5) as well as Elizabeth’s father, Edward Pickles (65-Farmer) and her sister Mary (25).
 
1851 Census again does not include William Hargreaves, but Elizabeth is still shown as married (40 – Head – Farmer of 11 acres), son John (16- Power Loom weaver) and son Edward (14 – School?). They are still living at Harwood Edge in Great Harwood.

1861 Census again shows Elizabeth as married (50 – Head – Farmer of 13 acres) living with son John (26 – Cotton Cloth Looker) but her husband William is once again not listed in the household. They are still at Harwood Edge in Great Harwood, but also listed there are a family with the surname Eccles – unsure of relation.

1871 Census shows Elizabeth as a widow (60 – Head- farmer of 11 acres) at Harwood Edge, Great Harwood. Her son John (35 – Head – Manager in a Cotton Mill) married to Jane (21) and their three children, Elizabeth (9), Edward (4) and Kate (1).


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Offline Maiden Stone

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Hello and welcome to RootsChat.
Have you found any possibilities for William on any census?
Cowban

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Offline Maiden Stone

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According to transcript of marriage on Lancashire Online Parish clerks, the marriage was by licence. I can't find the licence in Lancashire Archives catalogue, either under Hargreaves or Pickles.
Coincidently there's a marriage licence dated 10th Sept. 1831 for another William Hargreaves, a silk draper, but his abode was Caton, near Lancaster and he intended to marry Jane Bibby of Lancaster.
Do you know anything about marriage witnesses, Thomas Wilding and Elizabeth Westwell?
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Do you have a possible year of death for William? Was he buried with Elizabeth or one of the children? If answer to both questions is "No" then:
Given that he was never present with the family on a census and that he may have died 1861-1871, a burial at St. Mary,  Lancaster, 28th Dec. 1863 may be worth considering. Stated age was 48. (Age at death wasn't always accurate.) Abode was Lunatic Asylum.
Lancaster Asylum opened 1816 and for 35 years patients were from all over Lancashire. Admission & discharge + other records are at Lancashire Archives. Admission registers from 1846 on Ancestry.
Census returns for the asylum may not contain full names so you may need to look through each return to find him.
There are 17 more middle-aged/elderly men whose death registrations are in Lancashire BMD index. That's assuming he died in Lancashire.
Cowban

Offline RowenaElce

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Hello Maiden Stone,

Thank you for your quick response.  :)

Unfortunately, I have not found any Censuses for William Hargreaves. I do not know when he was born nor when he died. I can assume both though but that's not helped me so far.

I have not been able to narrow down the options for his birth without knowing parents names or place of birth. Marriage record shows Haslingden and I've found a baptism record for Wm Hargreaves 3 June 1804 to parents George and Rachel Hargreaves. It's a possibility in my mind but only because his first child was named Rachel.

Same applies with year and place of death - I can assume place of death was Great Harwood, but not certain and any time between 1836 (last child born 1837) and 1871 (census his wife is listed as widow) is possible. I know his wife, Elizabeth was buried at St. Bartholomew in Great Harwood but have not found any record of William being buried there.

I have a copy of the Parish register from Great Harwood which shows them married by license. I have attached it to this thread if it helps. I think the names of the witnesses are as you mentioned, Thomas Wilding and Elizabeth Westwell, but it's hard to read the writing. These names are not familiar to me either.

I had not thought about looking at Asylums. I will have to give that a try. I just recently learned about Lancashire BMD and have been checking through the years for his death but to no avail so far. I will keep at that too.

Thank you for all your help and suggestions. Since I live overseas I am not able to do any local research. Maybe I'll have to plan a trip the England sometime in the future but for now I will keep plugging at it.

Offline Maiden Stone

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There are several possible baptisms in Haslingden on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks, one with a father John, I noticed, as William & Elizabeth's first son, according to baptisms was John. Do you know the name of Elizabeth's mother? Usual naming pattern was 1st daughter after maternal grandmother, 2nd after paternal GM, 1st son after paternal grandfather, 2nd son after maternal GF. Some parents reversed the order or didn't keep to the custom.
 As you say, you don't know were he was born, only where he was when he married. Another possibility is that he wasn't C. of E.

It's odd that he wasn't on any census with his family. Possibilities which spring to mind: He was abroad on business; he was elsewhere in UK on business but not every year, surely?); he'd emigrated; he and Elizabeth had split; he joined army or navy; he was in an institution - hospital or prison.
Westwell is a common surname in the area. Hargreaves is very common in Lancashire of course.

Posting that marriage register image may infringe RootsChat copyright policy. I'll ask a moderator.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Same applies with year and place of death - I can assume place of death was Great Harwood, but not certain and any time between 1836 (last child born 1837) and 1871 (census his wife is listed as widow) is possible. I know his wife, Elizabeth was buried at St. Bartholomew in Great Harwood but have not found any record of William being buried there.

I had not thought about looking at Asylums. I will have to give that a try. I just recently learned about Lancashire BMD and have been checking through the years for his death but to no avail so far. I will keep at that too.

I've checked coverage of death registrations in Great Harwood sub-district and other sub-districts in what is now Hyndburn registration district  and those for 19th century seem to be complete. If William died in Great Harwood after start of civil registration, September 1837, his death should be indexed on Lancs. BMD.
To see coverage, go to Home page and click "Frequently asked questions"; select "What areas are covered/not covered?"; click on the underlined word "deaths" to see years indexed for each area. List of registration districts are in alphabetical order and sub-districts within each reg. district are also in alphabetical order. Death registrations in many nearby districts such as Blackburn, Burnley, Bury and Ribble Valley also seem to be indexed.
I couldn't see a death registered for Rachel.
Cowban

Offline RowenaElce

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Thank you for letting me know about the copyright image policy. I was contacted by the moderator and I have since corrected it. Hopefully my changes to the picture have been done correctly. This is my 1st chat room/forum so it’s a big learning curve for me. :)

I agree with your observation about naming patterns. Elizabeth’s mother’s name was Betty and her father was Edward. Second son was obviously named after him.  The only other Rachel I have in my Tree would be Elizabeth’s sister, so it’s possible William & Elizabeth named their daughter after her. However, I think it’s more apt that William’s parents’ names were either Rachel or John or both.

I have not found record of their daughter, Rachel’s death either.

I appreciate your suggestions on why William might not be on the censuses with Elizabeth and, your help in how to read the BMD and suggestions on areas to look at. I find it hard sometimes as I’m always double checking google maps on where places are located. Any other suggestions would be welcome as well. :-D

I will keep digging but this looks like it’s going to be a BIG brick wall that will be around for quite some time.
Thanks for your help. - Rowena

Offline trish1120

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FreeREG has a few Great Harwood records.

I always look a hew years either side of a Marriage to see if possible siblings married in the same Church.
There are several possibles including;

MARY Hargreaves married Richard HAMER 27 Sep 1829 (EWD Pickles was a witness)
So worth looking at and then finding them on Census to confirm dob/pob.

Trish :)
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