Seeking assistance to find birthplace of Irish ancestor Ann Sharkey

[GeoffTurner]

I'm trying to determine the birth place of Ann Sharkey (or Shirkey etc) in about 1786. She was a servant convicted in Dublin in 1816 of stealing a plate and transported to Australia for 7 years. She sailed from Cork on the Canada (4) in 1817 and arrived in Port Jackson in August of that year. She met William Herbert, a convict from Wiltshire, who had arrived in April 1817, and they married in St Luke's Anglican church at Liverpool in Sept 1818. They were the earliest pioneers in an area near Canberra known as the Naas Valley, with the Naas River running through it. I have been able to find out a lot about them and their family in Australia but most of the convict papers just give the date and place of the trial and the name of the ship and date of its arrival, not any earlier personal information. I have found three conflicting places listed for Ann's birth, but don't have proof for any of them. One is Wexford, I'm not sure why that would be the case. One is Dublin, and she was certainly there when she was tried, but she was about 30 years old by then. The other suggestion is Naas in County Kildare, which is not terribly far from Dublin. I am not sure if the Herberts actually named the Naas Valley but if they did, it would make sense that William named it after his wife's birthplace. I like that version but would dearly love some evidence to back it up. Ann married in an Anglican church in Australia but some sources say she was Catholic. According to untested information I have, her parents were John Sharkey and Ann (possibly Maginnis). If anyone can suggest how I can prove any of these theories (and discard the errors) I would be most grateful. I subscribe to Ancestry but would prefer not to have to pay for other sites. Thanks, Geoff Turner.     

[majm]

There is an Ann SHARKEY with correspondence in the Col Secretary Papers index, noting she came per the Friendship, and was in the Liverpool district and seeking permission to marry there in July/August 1818, and I think she may be your lass…  http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/ Perhaps her native place is noted on that correspondence file?

The marriage you refer to for your Ann, seems to be this one:
William HERBERT of Bringelly (signed his x mark) and Ann SHARKEY, spinster of Bringelly, (signed her x mark) were married 20 September 1818, by Banns, by Rev John YOUL, St Lukes, C of E, Liverpool.  Witnesses:
William TURNER (X mark)
Hannah TURNER (X mark)
John CUTLER (X mark)

I can see that Michael HERBERT, son of William HERBERT and Ann SHARKEY was baptism 30 March 1831, and that baptism is recorded in the Roman Catholic parish registers for St Marys (ie the diocese HQ) … the sponsors were Thomas and Mary FLUSKY.   The baptisms of their earlier children (Mary Ann, William Campbell and Thomas) are recorded in St Lukes C of E at Liverpool. 

JM

[majm]

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/births-deaths-and-marriages-registers-1787-1856

At that link to NSW State Archives you will notice that the separation of records of baptisms, marriages, burials for Roman Catholic rites was separately recorded from 1825.  Prior to this those ceremonies were of course conducted and they were registered in the NSW Chaplains registers, in accordance with a General Order first issued by Governor Lachlan Macquarie in 1810.  That 1810 order  required clergy of all the denominations to transmit a summary of their baptisms, marriages, burials each quarter to the NSW Chaplains.   The NSW Chaplains were of course clergymen, and  they were appointed by the NSW Governors and that general order remained the standing practice until civil registration commenced.  However, the NSW governor and the civil administration did not provide the funding for the clergy to transmit their returns to those appointed as NSW Chaplains, so the General Order was not always the most significant task for any clergy of any denomination.  BUT you can find that the extant record of a baptism or a marriage or a burial is often found in the C of E parish registers that those NSW Chaplains established and maintained.   Sometimes (actually quite often) family history buffs assume that a baptism or a marriage or a burial was a C of E one because they can find the entry in the parish register raised by a NSW Chaplain.   

So the marriage at St Lukes was conducted by Rev John Youl, and was according to the rites of the C of E, in 1818 ... I will need to look up my detailed records for that year, but I think you will find there was no R.C reverend present in NSW at that time who had authority to conduct any marriages.    I have not sought to view the baptism register that  I have mentioned as including the St Lukes baptisms for the three older siblings for Michael HERBERT.

But perhaps you would like to read one of the General Orders issued by Lachlan Macquarie in 1810 ...

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/628068 Sydney Gazette 15 Sept 1810

JM

[GeoffTurner]

Hi JM, thanks again for your help.
Yes that is her, and the ship is obviously an error. She is on the muster roll for convicts on the Canada (4) and that is the ship given on later documents as well. William Herbert is in the same colonial secretary index requesting permission to marry, same dates, July/Aug 1818, and his ship is correct. I have the marriage register image from St Luke's. It seems from NSW BDM that Mary Ann and the first Thomas were baptised in 1820 but Mary Ann must have been born well before that, given that she married in 1833 (I have that from 2 sources). There was a second Thomas baptised in 1826, which is why I assume the Thomas baptised in 1820 died. I had a private reply from a man in Ireland who said the chances of finding an Irish baptism recorded that early were about zero. He also said that Sharkey was almost certainly a Catholic family name -- more than 90% of people with Sharkey surname in 1911 census were Catholic. But William Herbert may well have been C of E, and at Liverpool in 1818 there may not have been a choice, especially if Mary Ann was already on the way and they needed to marry quickly. None of the documents I have seen give more than Ann's trial details and ship of arrival, and if I could find trial documents or newspaper reports they would probably just say she was from Dublin since that was where she was working when she was tried and convicted. I am not in Sydney, is there any way for me to check whether the correspondence file on her application to marry includes place of birth?
Geoff
PS: I have just read your additional post. The issue of religion is not of great concern to me. But I would have a look at those links. Thanks again.

[GeoffTurner]

I should explain that the issue of Ann's religion is not vital to me because she was born too early to find her in the Catholic parish records for Naas, which date from 1813. She was born about 1786. The Church of Ireland records (those that survived the 1922 fire) are not online.

[GeoffTurner]

I found the copying service and have ordered a copy of the file.

[majm]

Girls could marry at age 12  (boys at 14) in that era in NSW.

JM

[GeoffTurner]

That puts things in a different light. But I think it is still possible she was born earlier and not baptised until the boy came along, and they were done as a job lot. Or they could have been twins born in 1820 I suppose. Either way, she was married by a minister in a church in 1933, so no-one seems to have been too worried by her age.

[rathmore]

Peter Mayberry convicts

Ann Sharkey D.O.B. 1791 age 26, ship Canada (4) year 1817

http://www.nma.gov.au

then click on Peter Mayberry