Author Topic: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help  (Read 5230 times)

Offline panished

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #18 on: Monday 29 July 19 20:24 BST (UK) »
 
 
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
  Reply  193 on: Friday 19 February 16 13:20 GMT (UK)
Quote
                     This is the story of Hawthorne Street Kings Meadow Road
 
 Thompson the so called writer found one story in 1909 and merited it warranted but a single line   
 
 
AFFAIRS OF EGYPT  1909

By  Thompson

These notes are compiled almost entirely from the large volume  weighing seven pounds of Press cuttings collected by the Society's Honorary Secretary On March 15 some so called Gypsies were evicted from a camping ground in Hawthorne Street, Nottingham
                 

AFFAIRS OF GIPSYS  2016

By Me

Nottingham 1909

After numerous written notices and two and one quarter hours of argument, a body of Gipsies were removed from land in Hawthorne street, Nottingham. belonging, Mr. H. Brown and Messrs. Brothers. For two or three years  this land has been the free habitat of the Bohemians,  the landowners, in co-operation with the city sanitary inspector,  determined to them,   notice of eviction  Mr. Brown's agent, together with two gentlemen from Red Lion-street, two other men' on behalf of Chorley Brothers, and a couple of policemen, at nine o'clock this morning.   Perhaps the order had not been taken seriously, for the encampment had yet made the slightest preparation, and the only horse fetched from the fields was promptly sent away when the police were spotted. There were three caravans, in which some 15 people lived, Billy Bacon, pleaded that his only available horse was lame, and refused to quit. Thereupon the two gentlemen from 
Red Lionstreet, capable looking, stepped to the front
 “The first man who touches my van  I'll lay  out" intimated Billy, the powerful looking fellow  standing over six feet high.  The gentlemen from Red Lion-street consulted, and decided that they could not interfere under the  circumstances. Meanwhile, one of the owners of the other vans said he was quite willing
 "to have a flutter'’  and stand the consequences. 
someone was despatched to negotiate 
 

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #19 on: Monday 29 July 19 20:27 BST (UK) »
Nottingham 1900

Charles Bacon, gipsy,  ailing from Shirebrook. was summoned for  aiding and abetting
Fred Wiltshire, Richard Elliott. and John Gregory, in trespassing in search of game, on land belonging the Duke of Portland


Nottingham 1909
                         
                                                 REMARKABLE CASE 

A  story  unfolded in the Nottingham Guildhall  during the hearing a case in which Joseph Thompson,  hawker, Narrow marsh, and Frederick Wiltshire,   horse dealer, living in travelling van standing in Hawthorne street, the Meadows, were charged with stealing a leather bag, containing £23 in gold, from the person of Samuel Potter, general dealer, who resides at 9, Victoria place, Fishergate, on Saturday the 4th.
Mr. R. A. Young, who prosecuted, explained that on the date named Potter met the prisoners in the Nottingham Cattle Market, and bargained with Wiltshire for some time about the purchase of a horse. The deal did not come off, but while it was in progress Potter happened to show them his money,   Afterwards all three adjourned to a public house, and later in the evening met in the Great Market place. They sat drinking for some time, and Wiltshire introduced Potter to  couple of women, the three men set off towards the tramway depot, the two women being some distance behind. On a piece of waste land Wiltshire deliberately took Potter’s purse gold out of his inside pocket. When Potter resisted,  Wiltshire struck him a violent blow under the jaw. knocking him down .
  threats had bean made against the women in the event of giving evidence,  necessary to subpoena. Evidence was then given by the woman referred to Ethel Lakin, 17 Kid street The witness, spoke to seeing the robbery committed. she threatened to give information, and Wiltshire retorted that he would smash a bottle on her head . Wiltshire Offered her £8 to leave the town and let the case fall through, when charged Wiltshire replied that he knew nothing about the £ 23, but Potter was “flashing the money about"  Thompson denied the theft. the identity of the other woman concerned, Castle said he had never been able to  trace her. She was referred to "Birmingham Annie.'' and had reason to believe that she had left the town 


 

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #20 on: Monday 29 July 19 20:30 BST (UK) »
NOTTINGHAM POLICE-COURT 1924
                                           
                                              BRAWL IN A CARAVAN

For considerable time, magistrates at the Nottingham Guildhall to-day were engaged in hearing a case of alleged theft and assault. Thomas Smith, 28, dealer, 71a, Red Lion-street, William Smith. 57. labourer, 2, Essex-street, and George Smith, 59. hawker living in a caravan in Kings Meadow road were charged with stealing  eleven and a quarter yards of linoleum  belonging  William Wiltshire, senr., a caravan dweller,  Kings Meadow road, George Smith was also charged with assaulting William Wiltshire jun, while the later and his Farther were summoned for assaulting George Smith. Mr R.A Young, represented the Wiltshire's, while  Mr A.F Heane appeared for the Smiths.For the prosecution it was alleged that the three men entered the caravan of William Wiltshire Senr. In Kings Meadow road, late on the night of February the 28th and stole a role of linoleum.

George Smith who was alleged armed with an iron bar, afterwards struck William Wiltshire jun, who was injured in the groin.

                                      " ATTACKED WITH A SPADE"

It was admitted George Smith was injured on the head, but it was alleged that he was hit by his own son Tommy by mistake.
For the defence it was contended that George Smith had lent Wiltshire Senr money, and as he had been unable to get some of it back he went to the caravan to get the linoleum.
The Wiltshires, George Smith alleged, attacked him with a spade, the result beying he had to be conveyed to hospital, where two stiches were put into his head,
what happened in the caravan, said Mr Heane, was something akin to a drunken brawl.
The summonses against the Wiltshires was dismissed and the bench considered the assault by George Smith proved, but taking all the circumstances into consideration, they imposed a fine of one pound.The charge of theft against the three Smiths was dismissed.
 
 Nottingham 1916
 
                                              FAILURE TO REGISTER

The excuse that he was no scholar was offered by vandweller named William Wiltshire, 39, of Hawthorne Street   


FIGHT AMONGST THE GIPSIES 1918

 
                                             SEQUEL TO A MELEE 

As sequel to regular melee  between bands of  Gipsies who have settled on a waste piece of land in Hawthorne street, Nottingham, George Smith, 57, popularly known as "Gipsy Smith," appeared at the Nottingham Guildhall to day charged with wilfully damaging a caravan, three violins, and other property, value £20. belonging to  basali, a  swarthy looking foreigner who has not yet mastered the english language. Smith was also charged with assaulting Barthelmy Ferret, another van dweller. so far as the charges of assault were concerned permission was asked to withdraw them on the understanding that prisoner compensated prosecutor for damage. Mr. Clayton for Smith facetiously remarked that was a demonstration of Gipsy love, adding that prisoner was not an  evangelist, though born and bred in a tent. (laughter) Smith ordered to pay the £20 to Basali, Prisoner expressed his gratitude to the magistrates


Offline panished

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #21 on: Monday 29 July 19 20:30 BST (UK) »
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
 Reply  194 on: Friday 19 February 16 16:46 GMT (UK) 
Quote
 
http://www.nottstalgia.com/images/nottingham_1920s_map.jpg

you can zoom this map up, follow the trent to your left, there is the old Wilford  toll bridge, just above is Hawthorne street leading on to Kings Meadow road, to your left is old Lenton were the Gipsy Isaac Herron says he liked to stay, just below the toll bridge is Wilford, that's were lots of Gipsys are buried
 
http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/resources/maps/Nottingham/nottinghamstreetmapc1960.pdf

scroll down eight pages and see Hawthorne Street and Kings Meadow Road, the land where Gipsys would stay was next to the power station and cliffton colliery

in the photo below you will see the river, to the top middle is the places I talk, this photo is from the twenty's so this is more or less how it was

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjs_f78x4TLAhUDNxQKHYYPAG4QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.britainfromabove.org.uk%2Fimage%2Fepw021043&psig=AFQjCNHm8XjF24wX40pNVIar6ueQqGmYow&ust=1455996453213373

Robert Mellors, Old Nottingham suburbs: then and now  Wilford 1914
 
NORTH WILFORD

By an Order of the Local Government Board, made in 1894, the parish of Wilford was divided, and that part of the parish to the north of the Trent was directed to be called North Wilford. It will surprise some people to be told how large a portion of Nottingham Meadows was in the original parish, and now forms the new parish named

 The Wilford Meadow was the land west of what we call Wilford Boad, now the Colliery district, and south of "The King's Meadow." In a perambulation of the boundaries of Sherwood Forest in 1505, the officers started from the King's Castell att Nottingham, "and then by the Ould Trentt to the oulde corse of the watter of Leene (which is the bound between the King's medows and the medow of Wilford " etc. B. B., 413.
Between the King's Meadow and Wilford Meadow, it is probable, the boundary was a great dyke. A lithographic view of Nottingham was taken by Henry Burn in 1845, apparently from the northern boundary dyke of Wilford parish, at the junction of King's Meadow and Wilford Roads. It shows the footpath to the ferry, and the dyke, with a tree prominent in the foreground. A copy of this picture appears in "In and about Notts.," page 248.

Crocuses. At the middle of the last century millions of crocuses were growing on both parts of North Wilford meadows, forming a sight of beauty such as no-one who had seen them could ever forget. They are nearly all gone now. Two fields near the Colliery survive, west of Bosworth road Schools. But why mourn over lost flowers?
The places where they grew are occupied with houses, and the houses are full of children, and the children are more beautiful, and of greater value than the flowers.

Colliery. There are in North Wilford two parts necessarily and permanently divided. In the west section the Colliery is the principal feature. When the Pit was sunk, and the Colliery opened out, the business was for several years carried on in the name of Mr. Saul Isaacs as proprietor, until in 1876 the Clifton Colliery Company, Ltd., was formed. It is now the largest employer of labour in the parish, usually having 1,000 workmen and boys,

Schools.
The Bosworth Road Schools were opened in 1886,  suggests that the names of local streets are reminiscent of the end of the Wars of the Roses, and of the Civil War.

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #22 on: Monday 29 July 19 20:37 BST (UK) »
If any one is looking for Familys around Nottingham i have found many in many old unknown camping grounds, i have done this over several yeares now from learning from Richard the great book man of the south, He writes about the Gipsies in many new books of this day, a very good noted writer, i know every inch of Nottingham, all if not everything is nigh on gone or changed but i have found little bits of land or streets left, it as been great to find the lost places, i hope others like the ones now looking keep up the great look, this will help others to look and find their People, all Gipsies are Gipsy, they all come from the People in their own little way, let the truth never rest till every lie is nailed to its masters forehead, a snake is a snake, a lie is a lie, but how does the Dead live in such lies, its when the living speak the truth, then the snake dies, its then that the Dead rest and the living live to tell the tale of the Dead

michael

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #23 on: Monday 29 July 19 20:55 BST (UK) »
my granny was an Elliott ,her dad was the mentioned  Fred Elliott and her mam was the mentioned Emily Smith ...my granny Jinny Elliott married Ben Smith .My Elliotts were around Retford .My greatgrandads parents Thomas Elliott and Lydia Wiltser.Thomas parents William Elliott and Harriet Gray .my greatgrannie Emily Smith parents Thomas Smith and Syberina Smith .My grandad was Ben Smith ,he came down from Smiths Butlers Deadmans and Boswells .I still have family living in the area Nottingham Retford ... ...
Smith, Wilson ,Elliot ,Ratchford Burnside ,

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #24 on: Monday 29 July 19 21:04 BST (UK) »
 thank you again, i have read all your words of your long Families, that is a great history you speak of, many great names like the Grays, all of them tho real good People of respect, all the People you mention, i have only read of certain things, i was told lots about history through growing up that i write about, i listoned then to storys about the Familys of the North Notts, but i have read only about Retford, i never did hear of it before i started to learn in this manner, many times i have read records of the Elliotts around there, the Wiltser Wilshers Wiltshires Wilshaws Wiltshaws  welshires and more are around Retford long ago, all thoes surrounding places, they are related to Familys like the Heaps and Sharlotts Charlotts plus many other names, Retford hold many storys i just know it does, the Boswells are there from long long ago, wild to, so wild and free, all Gipsy People have a big history in being from many peoples, some are more intune with the past, there are more who are not, there are many types of cross over people who are thinking just through the reading thought, i would love much to hear more of your knowledge, you must write down all you have learned, you are important more than you know, thank you again it as been my luck to have read your words

 

Offline skyshot1990

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 17 August 19 12:45 BST (UK) »
my granny was an Elliott ,her dad was the mentioned  Fred Elliott and her mam was the mentioned Emily Smith ...my granny Jinny Elliott married Ben Smith .My Elliotts were around Retford .My greatgrandads parents Thomas Elliott and Lydia Wiltser.Thomas parents William Elliott and Harriet Gray .my greatgrannie Emily Smith parents Thomas Smith and Syberina Smith .My grandad was Ben Smith ,he came down from Smiths Butlers Deadmans and Boswells .I still have family living in the area Nottingham Retford ... ...

Lydia Wiltser is my 1 cousin 6 x removed, she comes from another branch of my tree... If you have not purchased the Elliot book, you should buy that, much of your Elliot/Smith blood lines have had much research done on them.
Wilsher, Wilshire, Wilshaw, Wilcher, Wiltshire
Boyling, Boylin, Boilin
Woodward
Nelson
Winter, Winters
Gregory
Knight
Smith

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Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 17 August 19 12:47 BST (UK) »
If any one is looking for Familys around Nottingham i have found many in many old unknown camping grounds, i have done this over several yeares now from learning from Richard the great book man of the south, He writes about the Gipsies in many new books of this day, a very good noted writer, i know every inch of Nottingham, all if not everything is nigh on gone or changed but i have found little bits of land or streets left, it as been great to find the lost places, i hope others like the ones now looking keep up the great look, this will help others to look and find their People, all Gipsies are Gipsy, they all come from the People in their own little way, let the truth never rest till every lie is nailed to its masters forehead, a snake is a snake, a lie is a lie, but how does the Dead live in such lies, its when the living speak the truth, then the snake dies, its then that the Dead rest and the living live to tell the tale of the Dead

michael

What do you think of this Smith's field King's Meadow rd?

Do you think this land was owned by the smith's or was it a street called Smith / landed used by them?
Wilsher, Wilshire, Wilshaw, Wilcher, Wiltshire
Boyling, Boylin, Boilin
Woodward
Nelson
Winter, Winters
Gregory
Knight
Smith