Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help

[skyshot1990]

Ya that will be the caravan brawl...

I have it in my records, every thing would point to it being my 4th great uncle the area is given as meadow rd if I remember right, which again pops up matching this smiths fields name.

[kaziah]

Yes that's the one... an alcohol fuelled brawl no doubt!...  we're also related to Charles Bacon who I believe also lived in Watson's Yard.
Kazi

[skyshot1990]

in the 1890s-1940s there seems to be a large amount of travellers in and around Nottingham... Not sure what its like now, my grand dad moved down south and I have never been up there.

The Smith and Wilsher family had extremely strong connections from what my research shows. 

[janeo]

don,t know if this is any use ,newspaper article 1928 my greatgrandad was stopping in a van in Nottingham .....

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Hi Janeo

The Elliotts are great, i have read so much about the Elliotts, great Gipsy People, thank you so much for putting up that article i have not seen that one, i have hundreds of the great Elliotts, trust me all Gipsies are from Gipsies, you are and must be a proud person, it was me who found about Hawthorne street and many unknown camp sites around Nottingham, no one will ever know of me but my aim was for others to take an interest and get back the pride, Gipsies were not fallen, but their ancesters were fooled by the wicked, thank you for putting up that article, look at a few of these articles i found a while back about Radford, you done rearly good and well in finding that record, well done, the bridge at Radford and the story you tell of brings me ever closer, i am born and bred from Nottingham and know every place in every story, there was many camp sites big and small over hundreds of yeares, the Elliotts are inter wed with the people my Mother was from, thank you again you are a star and i will never forget you well done, we must bring back the truth and raise the Dead from the bondage of lies, imagine being dead and bound with chains of false epitaphs, the pain must be terrible, a person would never rest, i am not afraid of the living and respect the Dead and will talk for them, you may never reply to me like lots but you will have good luck as will will your Family

michael

Thursday 14 June 1928
  Nottingham Journal
  Nottinghamshire 

VAN-DWELLER’S FATE
  Fred Elliott, a hawker, living in a van at Radford Bridge-road, said deceased had lived with him for years. She had been suffering from catarrh and bronchitis, and was recently discharged from Bagthorpe Infirmary
 
 
 Tuesday 12 June 1928
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire
  RADFORD CANAL TRAGEDY. CARAVAN DWELLER'S BODY FOUND IN THE WATER. Discovering early this morning that his mother had vanished in the night. William Elliott, van dweller near Radford Canal bridge. Wollaton road, Nottingham 
   
 
 Wednesday 13 June 1928
 Nottingham Journal
  Nottinghamshire 

 DROWNED IN CANAL. Mother Found by Son at Radford. At 5.30 yesterday morning William Elliott, van-dweller on Wollaton-road, near Radford Canal Bridge. Nottingham, found his mother missing from the van, and upon investigating he found her lying face down
   
 



Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
 18 on: Wednesday 24 October 18 22:50 BST (UK) 

Thanks again Mel

More for me to learn from, The Gypsy Genealogy web site as so much great information in. Thank you for everything, When i first put the article record on about Charlotte Hammond i noticed how it was stated Radford Nottingham, i am from Nottingham, i have been tracing the Old Camping Grounds, so a while back i looked for one at Radford this is some of what i found, i will not divert to much, i think though that such things as this will be of help to others who read these words.

 I have read that Radford derived its name of the "red ford" from the Mottled Bed Sandstone in the high cliffs, where the Alfreton Road crossed the Leen by a ford.   
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101603268
 
 There was an Old way from Lenton to Radford the Marsh Road or Radford Marsh.  Radford used to be in the priory of Lenton so sometimes Radford is talked about as Lenton in the Old writings, in the early 1900s i think it was then that the name changed to Faraday Road where the Worled famouse Raleigh bikes were made, now in this time next to this Road is a new housing estate, the road named as Radmarsh Road, i think from what i have read from many Old refferances there was once an Old Camping Ground at Radford, in the Fields around the area known as Radford Marsh. Another bit of information for others is that there was an Old Lane known as Outgang Lane. Outgang Lane is wrote about in 1488  known as the Outgoinges of Radford and Lenton leading North toward the Linges, the Lings was the Old name of the Forest, meaning where the heather grew, so look out in the census or other records for names like Radford Marsh or Outgang Lane. below i read this record, i do not know if it is corect, it as Gipsy People stated as staying around the area that i now write of.
 
1881 
Name David ALLEN
Relation Head Marital Status M Gender Male Age 42
Birthplace pworth, Lincoln, England
Occupation Hawker In Earthenware
Name Harriett ALLEN
Relation Wife Marital Status M Gender Female Age 33
Birthplace Sheffield, York, England
Occupation Hawkers Wife
Name George ALLEN
Relation Son Gender Male Age 9
Birthplace Dronfield, Derby, England
Occupation Assistant Hawker
Name James ALLEN
Relation Son Gender Male Age 5
Birthplace Glossop, Derby, England
Name James KNIGHT
Relation Relative Marital Status U Gender Male Age 19
Birthplace Sheffield, York, England
Occupation Hawker
Dwelling Radford Marsh Caravan Census Place Lenton, Nottingham, England

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
 Reply #432 on: Wednesday 26 April 17 21:38 BST (UK)
 
page two

helo, I have been  trying to find records of camps around Nottingham, I am at present writing about the one I found at Hawthorne Street, sadly it as long since gone in the redevelopment of the Meadows, I am also still trying to find all the old camping grounds around the City of my birth, i wish to learn and understand as much as I can, in turn I wish to share the things I find, I know one day someone will find them, then they will also understand, well I just came across this report below, see now how there was once a camp site at Radford, Radford is just up from Lenton, that is one of the places where the Herons stayed, Lenton is just up from the Meadows where Hawthorne Street Kings Meadow Road is, which intern connects to the Marshes then Sneinton and St Ann's, all these places are rich in untold history, there will be more places to find to, Radford is now in inner City Nottingham, but back in the 1800s it would of been on the outskirts of the City, see also how John Gray also seems to be married to Charlotte Hammond, it was her daughter I thought he was with, Charlotte is a Great Gipsy Woman of High Class, I hope these records will be of help to someone, and if anyone finds any records of Radford Nottingham would you please be kind enough to transcribe them on here, plus Hawthorne Street, I will finish writing about the records of these People above  maybe tomorrow, it might take two pages, then I will return to the stories of the camp at Hawthorne Street to show you what I have found then hopefully someone may be able to assist with my researchers

Nottinghamshire Guardian-Thursday 10 January 1861

Shire Hall,  Nottingham.

Sat.-(Before R Birkin, S.B.Wild, W. Needam, and  W.Hannay, Esqs.)

Radford. Life in the Gipsy Camp.-A gipsy named John Gray, of sombre cast of contenance, appeared in answer to a charge of assaulting a woman named Charlotte Hammond, whom he had espoused in conformity with “the marriage laws and customs of gisydom.” The complainant, a fortune-teller by profession, stated that on Tuesday night, the defendant struck her and injured her very much about the head, she was living with him at Radford at the time of the assault. The defendant commenced beating the woman’s daughter very violently,  wherest the complainant became irritated and declared she would not stand by to see him brutally ill-treat her own child in that manner. The complainant gave satisfactory proof of defendant’s ill-usage, and said he had behaved to her like a demon. He denied the charge, but the bench placed to much reliance on the woman’s testimony to doubt that considerable violence had been inflicted upon her, and the defendant was fined 16s, 6d. Including expenses.

Nottingham Journal Monday 7Jauary 1861

Disturbance among the Gipsies.

John Gray was charged with threatening language to Charlotte Hammond, on Tuesday evening last, at Radford. The parties were of the gipsy tribe, and during the disturbance one with another in their camp, the defendant threatened to murder complainant. After hearing the case, the magistrate ordered the defendant to be bound over in his own recognizances to keep the peace towards the complainant for six months. And to pay the expenses, amounting to 16s, 6d.

to be continued.......

 
 

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Katherine  Briggs  Dictionary of British Folk Tales in the English Language, Taylor Francis, 1991.   
  Reuben  Gray, Gus Gray  Old  Radford,  Nottingham. 

Sunday 26th November, 1815 St. Peters  Baptized Mary Ann Boswell -Zecharias - Sarah Boswell Radford Nottingham
 

 Nottingham Journal Tuesday 22 March Nottinghamshire Guardian Friday 25 March 1881 extracts

John Boswell a gipsy was charged with cruelty to a horse,-Sergeant Aldridge met the prisoner at Fawcett Street Radford, he was in charge of a horse attached to a van laden with tents and other things with which he travelled with, prisoner said he was on the way to Retford
 
 
 
 
Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
 Reply #433 on: Thursday 27 April 17 20:38 BST (UK)

Page three

Helo everyone

A good day to you all, well the article above about Charlotte Hammond and John Gray is I think, related to the article I am about to show you, it is a most fantastic account, one of , if not the best I have come across, it will take at least two pages to transcribe, I know it will be of great interest to everyone, again it is in my own City of Nottingham, I think these are those Old Original Gipsies, when I read of them, I hear them talking, and the Shire Hall is next to St Marys overlooking the old Marshes, you can now visit the Shire Hall and go into the same cells as they were remanded to, plus you may also go in the very same court room where the accounts I write of took place, the Shire Hall is now called the Galleries of Justice, it’s a museum, if these are your Relations come to Nottingham and stand where they stood, I walk in a City of many ghosts, everywhere I know and go was once walked and known by the Peoples I write about, there everywhere, I do hope I have helped someone, and will  always do so, now after these accounts I now write over two pagers, I will then write about The stories of the Family named Bacon, well I will try anyway, I hope this to, will be of help, remember all the Old People, all of them count, you must always respect all of them, they were just People getting by the best way they could.
http://www.galleriesofjustice.com/
click on this link above to learn of the Old ShireHall now the Galleries of Justice Museum


Nottinghamshire Guardian Thursday 21 October 1858

The  Zingari.—A  curious  scene transpired at the ShireHall on Saturday last. An athletic fellow, standing very little short of six feet, named John Gray, was charged before the right hon. Lord Belper, and a full Bench of Magistrates, with assaulting Levina Lee, another member of the Zingari or Gipsy tribe. The complainant stated that Gray, who had been in their camp three yeares, had been reproved for walking out at night with her sister, and in consequence of this he attacked Levina and lacerated her arm. Witness showed several marks of blows, and ges-ticulated violently. It appeared from the evidence of another witness who was called, that Gray had grasp of a bill hook in his hand and threatened to do murder with it, is menaces being directed towards Levina Lee. Gray prayed the Magistrates to remand him till Saturday in order to bring witnesses for his defence, which was accordingly done.-Vashti Lee, the sister who had been the cause of all this violence, was then put in the dock on a charge pre-ferred by her own mother of stealing a valuable ring. She had the aquiline nose, chiselled features, and expressive face, which are generally the characteristics of this wander-ing race; dressed with great taste, wearing a feathered hat. Her mother said she was her own child, adding with some feeling, I would not hurt she. The Bench, who appeared to be greatly interested in the case, demanded the particulars, which the old woman declined to give, repeat-ing, she my own child, I would not hurt she. The daughter then gave an account of how she became possessed of the jewel. It originally belonged to her grandmother, whom she tended in her last sickness, but no one was present at her death. She left no will, dying in the middle of the night. The ring was pledged at pawnbrokers in Lincoln, and redeemed by herself, for 8s.6d. As com-plainant declined to press the charge, she was set at liberty, and the mother demanded the ring. My ring, no gentle-men my ring if you please, my ring! Exclaimed the black eyed daughter; and as it was handed to her at the noble Chairman’s request, she burst into tears, and shaking her finger at her mother, said you want to punish me, but  ya can’t. Never mind Vashti, never mind, exclaimed the rebating voice of her dark adorer as he was conveyed to his remanded cell.

to be continued..........
 
 
 

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
 Reply #434 on: Friday 28 April 17 20:06 BST (UK) 

page Four

 This is the last of the Great stories I will tell from the writings above, may they all rest in Peace, everything is contained in the stories, I think everything is there, Passion, Love, Forbidden Love, Family Ways, life really, there is so much if you but feel into the words, its all there, I was just looking on Sues web site the Romany Jib and found this article, I was only having a look, I don't really know what I am doing, I was just trying to find information on Charlotte Hammond, I wonder if the People I have been writing about are the same as those in the link below
http://www.gypsyjib.com/thread/5202233/Vashti+%2F+Wasti+LEE+daughter+of+Zachariah+%26+Charlotte+wo+John+GRAY
then I just looked on RootsChat Archives and have been reading through this thread, once again I don't know who is who, I was only looking for camp sites round Nottingham, but you never know some of the information contained in the stories I write about may be of help in your research, I thought the comment made by Vashti's Mother was telling when She repeatedly said " she's my own child, I would not hurt she." its how you read into words I guess, I will not comment no more on this, maybe I see things wrongly. this is the link from RootsChat, http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=332980.0

Nottingham shire Guardian Thursday 28 October 1858

The Gipsy Again- At the ShireHall, on Saturday last, John Gray was charged on remand with assaulting Levina Lee, who did not appear in support of the charge. He had been a prisoner a week on this accusation, having requested the Magistrates to remand him for that period in order to procure witnesses for the defence. Another charge was also made against him-that of breaking the peace in an assault upon Jacob Kirk, with a bill hook, at Bulwell, on Friday week, but the complainant appeared and said he did not wish to press the charge, but merely sought to have the prisoner bound over. As he did not enter into the particulars, the bench said Gray would be dismissed on promising not to offend again.- Gipsy; I will. I'll say nothing to him no more. I don't blame dis gentleman.-Lord Belper: There is 12s. to pay-Gray said he had not got the money, but his mother, a wizened frightful- looking old jade, came forwards and produced a sovereign from the inner folds of a vile dirty handkerchief, and the prisoner was then discharged.

ps, Bulwell is just past Basford, Basford is next to Radford, Hucknall comes after Bulwell, Hucknall is the Boswells land, remember all these places, plus Arnold, they will assist you in your search
I did find in the Nottingham Evening Post, Friday 20 January 1893 another Vashti, She was living or staying at 1 Bailey-Street Old Basford, and was a Fortune-teller, She was  known as Vashti Butler-Gipsy, I think She was of the famous Derbyshire Boswells, I may be wrong but Linda as a photo of Her on Her web

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SEQUEL TO A HORSE DEAL


 these incidents  were reported in  the Nottingham press
 1909

during the hearing a case in which Joseph Thompson, commonly known as Slabbs,” aged 38, hawker, 51, Narrow-marsh, and Frederick Wiltshire, aged 35,  horse dealer, living in a travelling van standing in Hawthorne street, the Meadows, were charged with stealing  £23 from the person of Samuel Potter, Nottingham  horse dealer,   
 the two prisoners  said the prosecutor, each holding an arm, and Wiltshire deliberately took Potter’s   gold out of his inside pocket. When Potter resisted, -Wiltshire struck him a violent blow under the jaw. knocking him down, and both men remanded.

  see how still in 1909 they are still using the old name Narrow Marsh, that's a good bit of history
this is just local writing, unless you were there in 1909 that's all it will be
 

  1900


THIS DAY'S POLICE NEWS

  The nets. were ordered to be confiscated.—Charles Bacon, gipsy, ailing from Shirerbrook. was summoned  for  aiding and abetting Fred Wiltshire, Richard Elliott. and  John Gregory, in  tresspassing in search of game 


 
 Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
 Reply #191 on: Sunday 07 February 16 14:09 GMT (UK) 
 
 
A good bit of history

looks like Hawthorne street was a stopping place for the Wiltshire's
  1909 Frederick Wiltshire, aged 35,  horse dealer, living in a travelling van standing in Hawthorne street, this is the area called the Meadows,  now below William is there seven yeares later in 1916 its just south of the Marshes, Sneinton is to the East, St Anns more northwards but all join, this is where they may have kept there Wagons over the years, ready for when they took the notion to be on the move.


Nottingham 
  1916

IGNORANT OF THE LAW

  FAILURE TO REGISTER. The excuse that he was no scholar was offered by vandweller, named William Wiltshire, 39, of Hawthorne-street, who at the Nottingham Policecourt to-day was charged with being drunk and disorderly and also failing to Register

Now you have living at 25 Fyne Street Sneinton the Wiltshire's also using the name Wilsher same residence different name, same People.

Sneinton Nottingham
  1920


A DRUNKEN FRENZY

  NOTTINGHAM MAN DISCHARGES GUN IN STREET. The discharging a firearm in Fyne-street last night created quite a sensation among the residents, at the Nottingham Guildhall to-day,
James Wiltshire (45), described as a poacher, living 25,  Fyne- street  Sneinton
 
 “STAND BACK!” THREAT TO SHOOT NOTTM. POLICEMAN. EXCITING STREET AFFRAY.   . An exciting affair took place in  Fyne-street last night, as result of which James Wiltshire, aged 46. who  resided there appeared at the Nottingham Guildhall to-day 
 
SHOTS IN THE NIGHT

arrested, Wiltshire was found  to be mad drunk. Mr. W. E. (defending);

 Was he not firing in the air?

He was firing at us, One shot hit the wall in Fyne-street
NOTTINGHAM SHOOTING AFFRAY. PRISONER AGAIN REMANDED. Wiltshire. of Fyne-street.   discharging and threatening  an officer,  Nottingham Guildhall to-day, remanded 

NOTTM. HAWKER GETS  A MONTH FOR UNPROVOKED ASSAULT. 
at the Nottingham Guildhall  today James Wilsher 26. hawker. Fyne- Street   
 
1925

 NOTTINGHAM MAN. Said to have undergone the punishment of the cat, the birch, and penal servitude, James Thomas Wilsher, hawker, of 25. Fyne-street, Nottingham,
 was given two months imprisonment at the Guildhall to-day for being suspected person, and loitering.