Looking for photo Date Susannah Lloyd - USA

[Drayke]

Hello,

I'm looking for a bit of help in trying to determine the date of this photo (no restoration needed).

A bit of perspective: Susannah is from Wales and from what is known went to America to live with an uncle for a few years who wanted to adopt her.

Whilst the stories told about this visit are numerous only some are proving to be accurate or at least half truths and the dating of this photo will resolve a few key things as well as prove some of these stories.

Susannah was born in 1874 and the family was always told that she had her 21st birthday thrown by friends Frederick and Charlotte Kip in New York and this photo is of that day. This would put the date at 1895 however, I cant find any record of her trip at that time or her coming back to England after 1906 (of which she was still in New York). This makes me wonder if she traveled over to New York in 1901 when a Susie Lloyd is recorded in the passenger lists, but this would through the 21st birthday photo story out.

It was also told she met the Kips on the boat over, however cant find a record of a Kip and Lloyd traveling together so dating has proven very difficult.

Anyway photo attached is in three versions one is a Cabinet Card another is simply a side view of just the photo on no card and an enlarged version of A3 paper size which I have attached as well.

[jim1]

First thing to ask is can we see the back?
My first thought was this was a stock photo. These were produced by the thousand & were very popular particularly 1890's-early 20th. C.
They were of well known people from stage, music hall etc.
As she's wearing evening wear it's difficult to give a precise date (The back might help) but 1890's-early 1900's is about the right timeframe.
For this to be someone not from the stage she would have had to have been from a very well to do family to be able to afford an outfit like this.
So how sure are you it's her?

[Drayke]

Hello Jim,

Sorry for not posting the back of the photo it was 2am in the morning when I posted this and needed to scan it. That said I have attached the back showing the photographers details. The larger image taken at the same time however doesn't have any details on it and was made for a large frame.

As to your questions, yes it is my Great Grandmother not an actress and would seem I need to clarify a few more details that will explain the dress and why I am trying to date it.

Firstly the unknown Uncle she was going to stay with and wanted to adopt her (her mother wasn't to happy when hearing this) was from what we know a wealthy landowner in America. The story goes he owned the land that became Gainsville, however I have found no evidence of this especially given it seems Susannah's mother was illegitimate making it hard to chase. He had only 1 heir, a male and wanted a daughter to leave his wealth between the 2 however Susannah's mother refused.

It would seem though from the post cards and stories, that she didn't stay with her Uncle instead she travelled around America. The Kips who were her friends and who we have been told threw the party were the millionaire Kip textile magnates which that and her uncle's story may explain the dress and necklace which the family held in Australia until recently.

Am hoping for a more precise date that the photographers details may provide, but know this may not be possible. Basically to determine if the passenger list mentioned in the first post is her or not, however given she was suppose to have stayed 10 years in America and her daughter was born in wales in 1909 makes this yet another mystery.

[Erato]

"the land that became Gainsville"

Do you mean Gainesville, Florida?

[Drayke]

"the land that became Gainsville"

Do you mean Gainesville, Florida?

So the story goes yes. I've looked into that though and haven't found any info on the original owner.

[mckha489]

regarding the Uncle

in 1901 there is a Suzie Lloyd, 27, going to Uncle Evans c/- the Atlantic Hotel NY

Of course there are probably hundreds of Lloyds with Uncles Evans!

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T4-99PN-C?i=449&cc=1368704

modified to add the answer to have you been in America before is NO

this next page says Disposition Mr Mathews. 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T4-99PX-1?i=451&cc=1368704

[Drayke]

regarding the Uncle

in 1901 there is a Suzie Lloyd, 27, going to Uncle Evans c/- the Atlantic Hotel NY

Of course there are probably hundreds of Lloyds with Uncles Evans!

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T4-99PN-C?i=449&cc=1368704

modified to add the answer to have you been in America before is NO

Apologies, that's the record I meant. No idea why I said 1905 (I attribute that to lack of sleep at the time of posting - original post corrected). As to the Uncle Evans, if it was Uncle Evan I could understand as a first name as possible but Evans, suggests a last name of which no uncle of her family exists, unless at the time he was over 150 in age or a distant cousin. Also doesn't explain the meeting of the Kip's on the boat as that boat doesn't have a kip on it, unless the Kip's were friends of this Uncle Evans.

[mckha489]

Apologies I modified that message, probably while you were writing,  to mention Mr Mathews

[Drayke]

Apologies I modified that message, probably while you were writing,  to mention Mr Mathews

Who would this Mr Matthews be though, a clerk? Seems to be mentioned a few times on the page. Whether this is Susannah or not, not sure and is why I thought the possibility of dating the photo more accurately may prove more helpful. Every avenue taken seems to end in a dead end or more confusion.