Author Topic: Theatrical Family - Name changing after births  (Read 479 times)

Offline Lorraine Katherine

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Theatrical Family - Name changing after births
« on: Tuesday 28 May 19 18:40 BST (UK) »
Hello Roots Chat

We have a theatrical family that was previously unknown to us!

Please help find Eliza Priscilla Thrasher born 1869 London after 1891
her daughter is Violet Alice Louise Jezard, born out of wedlock

Please help find Violet Alice Louise Jezard born 1890 London after 1901
Violet is given false parents on her birth certificate and baptism and hidden from the 1891 census - why?
Violet is born in Finborough Road and Sacillia Lovell registered at that address is not found on any other records - why?
The Thrasher family change their name when Violet is born, to hide her birth or hiding from debts?

Horace Thrasher born 1893, later known as Horace Courtenay
Horace is given false parents on his birth certificate and baptism, why
Mother Alice Thrasher born 1871 London later known as Grace Courtenay
Grace married step-father Herbert Solomon in 1901
Horace and Violet are sent to a girls boarding school in Southend in 1901, why
Being age 7 and illegitimate his father could remove him from his mother, did the mother move him and give them alternative names to hide them or the father move him to give him a better start in life
Grace is living in a boarding house in Kensington living on own means in 1901 the family rumour that Horace was the son of an Earl or an illustrious member of the aristocracy, a person of considerable note.
The Thrasher family change their name when Horace is born, to hide his birth or hiding from debts.

Please help find Edward Leslie Court born 1905 London after 1926
Mother Ruby/Ruth Court (maiden names Ruth/Ruby Thrasher/Jezard), father Albert Edward Court Chief Of Staff London Coliseum
Ruth emigrated to America in 1905/1912 and had a common law marriage with also married Edward Warren Congdon a theatre booking manager, she was herself an actress/dancer and died in San Fransisco in 1968
Albert died in 1923
Edward emigrated to Canada in 1926

Eliza, Alice and Ruth's sister Louisa married Percy Atkins a theatrical business manager at the London Lyceum, The Globe (we have a silver bowl with The Globe Club engraved underneath, the bowl looking like the beautiful domed theatre ceiling) and other London theatres.

The sisters parents are Robert Thrasher and Priscilla May Pope, who were also probably not married as no marriage certificate can be found - but according to the Charles Booth survey the Thrasher family live in wealthy, respectable areas of London.

The Thrasher family are known as Torplow/Triplow, Jezard and Courtenay.

Thank you for your help!

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Offline Mckha489

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 28 May 19 21:21 BST (UK) »
Quote
Please help find Violet Alice Louise Jezard born 1890 London after 1901
Violet is given false parents on her birth certificate and baptism and hidden from the 1891 census - why?
Violet is born in Finborough Road and Sacillia Lovell registered at that address is not found on any other records - why?

What are the false names etc?  Can you please post all the details from the birth cert, even if you believe them to be false.
currently concentrating on NUTCHER & MARSHALL families, Hampshire.
and family of Thomas ANDERSON a Tailor of Perth, Scotland

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Offline Lorraine Katherine

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 28 May 19 21:34 BST (UK) »
Violet Alice Louise Jezard born 1890 London, baptised 1896 with Horace
Birth certificate parents Eliza Thrasher now Eliza Jezard, husband Alfred Jezard
Baptism parents May Jezard and George Jezard
Eliza and Alfred are not married - Alfred doesn't exist
Violet and Alfred do not appear on the 1891 census
Eliza is living with her family - is Violet upstairs in a room just not noted down for the census
Eliza's mother is Priscilla May Thrasher (Pope) born 1841 Hartest and Priscilla has a brother called George Pope - could these be the baptism 'parents'
In the 1881 census a brother Alfred Pope is visiting but looking at all the censuses for Priscilla's Pope family there is no Alfred and checked out baptisms in between each census

Horace Thrasher born 1893 London, baptised with Violet 1896
Birth certificate parents Grace Courtenay, now Grace Thrasher, father Robert Thrasher (Grace Courtenay is Alice Thrasher, Robert Thrasher is Alice's father)
Baptism parents Percy Thresher and Louisa Thresher (this is Percy Frederick Atkins and Louisa Thrasher Alice's sister who marry in 1905)
When Alice marries as Grace Courtenay in 1901 she calls her deceased father Robert Courtenay - we think Robert Thrasher who dies in 1879 is our Robert who on the death certificate is a fireman, a theatre fireman as the fire brigade have no records of him

Horace and Violet are living with their grandmother Priscilla May Thrasher but now known as Priscilla Jezard living in 133 Finborough Road
Priscilla dies in 1900 the widow of John Jezard (is this Robert Thrasher, when her daughter Ruth/Ruby marries as Ruby Jezard she calls her father Robert Jezard) but again no marriage for Priscilla and John and her daughter in law with her at her death was Ellen Jezard (is this Eliza) who again doesn't exist, so perhaps another reason why the children are sent to a boarding school having no-one to care for them when their mothers are working but why Southend and why a girls boarding school for Horace - he hated it there apparently!

Thanks again for your help!

Offline Mckha489

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 29 May 19 08:49 BST (UK) »
I've spent all day between showers looking at this. And nothing! sorry.

Have you investigated the 1863 marriage of Priscilla POPE to either Hansen or McDonald?

Where is Priscilla POPE in 1861?

Regarding Edward Leslie COURT I would suggest making a separate post for him on the Canada Board, just asking for him after 1926. (with a link back to this post and the other two related posts)

Did Eliza herself go on the stage too?  did she have another name for that?




currently concentrating on NUTCHER & MARSHALL families, Hampshire.
and family of Thomas ANDERSON a Tailor of Perth, Scotland

Offline Mckha489

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 29 May 19 08:50 BST (UK) »
Quote
In the 1881 census a brother Alfred Pope is visiting but looking at all the censuses for Priscilla's Pope family there is no Alfred and checked out baptisms in between each census

Might this be James POPE?  The right age.
currently concentrating on NUTCHER & MARSHALL families, Hampshire.
and family of Thomas ANDERSON a Tailor of Perth, Scotland

Offline JenB

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 29 May 19 08:53 BST (UK) »
See also http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic9070.html for other lines of enquiry on this topic.
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Offline Mckha489

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 29 May 19 09:15 BST (UK) »
thanks Jen.

The Era September 7, 1907

this part is for a boy, so unlikely to be played by an older woman. I wondered if Elsie might be Violet

currently concentrating on NUTCHER & MARSHALL families, Hampshire.
and family of Thomas ANDERSON a Tailor of Perth, Scotland

Offline Lorraine Katherine

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 29 May 19 09:36 BST (UK) »
With Horace, the Earls Of Devon are styled as Lord Courtenay - there was an Earl who was known to have several illegitimate children in the 1890's - the Earl died in January 1891 and unfortunately Horace was born in January 1893 - even if Horace's mother had not registered Horace's birth in a timely manner it's stretching the imagination too far for this man to be the father - unfortunately the next very religious Earl destroyed any papers relating to these illegitimate children. When asking if the family knew anything about Horace Courtenay born in 1893 the Earls Of Devon did ask 'is he one of ours' ! When Horace died in 1959 his solicitors were unable to trace his birth certificate as he had been registered as Horace Thrasher, the earliest we know Horace as Horace Courtenay is 1901.

Offline JenB

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Re: THEATRICAL FAMILY-NAME CHANGING AFTER BIRTHS
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 29 May 19 09:45 BST (UK) »
thanks Jen.

The Era September 7, 1907

this part is for a boy, so unlikely to be played by an older woman. I wondered if Elsie might be Violet

This person is quite possibly Elsie Gladys Jezzard 'Music Hall Artist' in 1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXB-3MK?print=true
(who also happens to be the grandmother of the actor David Suchet!)
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