Author Topic: Sailor or Mariner  (Read 360 times)

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Sailor or Mariner
« on: Friday 31 May 19 17:44 BST (UK) »
In my early 18th-century marriage records for Liverpool, quite a few grooms are 'Sailors' (variously spelt) while a smaller number are 'Mariners' (also variously spelt).  My Webster's makes no distinction in meaning, but might there have been one around 1700?
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

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Offline Chilternbirder

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #1 on: Friday 31 May 19 19:19 BST (UK) »
I would associate "mariner" as more likely to be an officer but the distinction is pretty loose. My gg grandfather was described as both at different times, he generally shipped as a boatswain but seems to have gone back to AB on his last few voyages. He appears in at least one census when I have documents showing that he was at sea so the description wasn't always his own.

Crabb from Laurencekirk / Fordoun and Scurry from mid Essex

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Online mazi

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #2 on: Friday 31 May 19 19:59 BST (UK) »
Liverpool built its first enclosed dock in 1715, prior to that it was mostly a coastal port, it took off very rapidly once the dock was built.

My thoughts are that mariners sailed to the americas, whilst sailors were going back and forth to Ireland or round the coast.

Mike

Offline ms_canuck

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #3 on: Friday 31 May 19 20:41 BST (UK) »
My GGG grandfather, Anthony Ash, born 1804 in Kingston-Upon-Hull, was bestowed the Freedom of the City of Hull, in 1825 as an Apprentice to Richard Marshall, Master Mariner, Beverley (Yorkshire).  His son Robert received the same Freedom of the City in 1846 - noted as Patrimony:  Anthony Ash, Mariner, Hull.  Although Robert was not a mariner by that time, it`s just the Freedom of the City which is passed down.

So I think Mariner may be a bit more elevated than Sailor (not to disparage Sailors in any way!)

My 2 cents...

Ms_C
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2. Ettenton / Eltenton - Guernsey 1806
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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #4 on: Friday 31 May 19 20:45 BST (UK) »

Mariner, or sailor, was a general term for any person employed on a sea-going ship, or if on river traffic a general term applicable to any member of the deck crew of any type of vessel.
A Master Mariner, held a master's or extra master's certificate issued by the Board of Trade, and was in supreme command of the vessel on a voyage.
Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
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Offline seaweed

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #5 on: Friday 31 May 19 21:34 BST (UK) »
I would agree with Stan Mapstone and Websters.
It is a general and interchangeable term. Given that the OP refers to Liverpool marriage records then it would be fair to assume that the majority referred to persons employed in the Mercantile service rather than the Royal Navy.
The term "Master Mariner" can be erroneous. Many mariners declare themselves as masters on census forms and other official records such as marriage or birth certificates without officially holding any BOT qualifications.
This would certainly be true before the formal introduction of BOT Masters Examinations in 1845.  These did not become compulsory for the Foreign Trade until 1850, and the Home Trade in 1854.
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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #6 on: Friday 31 May 19 21:36 BST (UK) »
From the OED
Mariner; 1. A person who navigates or assists in navigating a ship; a sailor. In Law, more generally: any person employed on a ship.

Sailor;  One who is professionally occupied with navigation; a seaman, mariner. Also, in narrower sense, applied (like ‘seaman’) to a member of a ship's company below the rank of officer.

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
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Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #7 on: Friday 31 May 19 22:52 BST (UK) »
My thoughts are that mariners sailed to the americas, whilst sailors were going back and forth to Ireland or round the coast.
 
Yes, I have a vague feeling that those who called themselves mariners may have seen deeper seas than the commoner sailors, who (in the case of Liverpool) may have been more in coastal traffic.  In a sense, anyone on a ship from the cabin-boy upwards would be a sailor; mariners were a bit more experienced.  Sea-dogs perhaps?
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline majm

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Re: Sailor or Mariner
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 01 June 19 03:19 BST (UK) »
A very interesting thread.   May I share an aside ... 1803, so early 19th century ... New South Wales, Australia - so a penal colony at that time, 15 years since the arrival of the First Fleet and already the colony had a printing press.   Here's a live link to a digitised image from 8 April 1804 Sydney Gazette, an advertisement to Mariners and Others ...
 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/626132
To Mariners and Others
LANE
Watchmaker, Sydney.
HAVING in hand and nearly completed, a Nauticle TIME KEEPER, with a Detached Scapement, Compound Barometer Balance, which Contracts or expands, equal to the various climates or degrees of heat and cold, a tempered spiral regulating Spring, a going Fusee Jeweled and neatly finished, regulated upon the most certain mathematical principle of heat and cold ; a Purchaser may have every satisfaction in ascertaining its longitudinal rate, or certainty of time by meridional observations or otherwise.
N.B. Ducats being the only Gold in this place to Gild with, any Gentleman having some to part with will be an accommodation.


JM


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