Author Topic: Holman Family - What are the chances?  (Read 1978 times)

Offline Drayke

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Holman Family - What are the chances?
« on: Wednesday 05 June 19 04:56 BST (UK) »
Hello All,

Have two peculiar issues with an ancestor in Sussex of which has proven difficult to trace any further and wondering if it is just impossible to trace back further or whether there is a chance of a family match in Surrey. Will be a two fold issue explained below.

Briefly, an ancestor, John Holman born around 1630 (no baptism ever found) married his second wife Charity Streater in Lindfield, Sussex, England in 1657. This as well as his marriage to his first wife in 1654 in Worth, Sussex places the family in that area. He had a son John Holman born 1658 in Worth, however no children listed in the area from then on until his son's children and descendants are born in Worth thereafter for a few centuries.

Firstly, John and Charity have their son John in 1658 in Worth and he appears to be their only child, however a hop, skip and a jump in Horne, Surrey in 31 Dec 1683 and 21 Aug 1686 a Love and Mary Holman are born to a John and Charity Holman respectively. Do you think it a coincidence and there just happens to be another John and Charity (of which I would assume a fairly uncommon name) 4 miles down the road or is it the same couple and these were their last children 25 years after John was born? Also note that John Holman was buried 4 Mar 1686 in Worth, Sussex of which makes me suspect it is all a coincidence.

Secondly, John Holman (1630) appears to come to Worth out of no where (all other Holman's as far as I can tell in the nearby area are accounted for) and extracts from records I have found show that there was, in or before 1675 (from a marriage settlement of another family) a John Holman in Crawley Downs Worth, however parish records do not record any Holman from before other than his son John (1658) mentioned above.

In researching this further, I came across the Holman family of Godstone, Surrey where in many wills from 1620, pass down Land in Crawley Down, Worth, Sussex to various members of their family with the last will mentioning the land going to a brother, John Holman and his family in Middlesex of which his child John (born 1646) is not the one living in Crawley Downs, Worth which appears to be John Holman above born 1630.

Do you think this is this just another uncanny coincidence or is there a chance that they are of the same family - a different line perhaps? Finding the elusive baptism of John Holman in around 1630 would obviously help solve this however have had no luck as some registers aren't online yet it seems.

Offline corinnapickett

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 14 May 21 23:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Drayke
My family name is Holman and I live in Australia. I have traced my line back to a Luke Holman from Brighton, Sussex born around 1800.  He married a Sarah Buckman.  Luke was a Butcher and Died in 1852.  This is where the line stops as I have had no luck in finding his birth anywhere in England.  I was wondering if you know of any Luke Holman or someone with a middle name of Luke living or born in Sussex around the turn of the century in 1800? I know Holman was also a popular name in America. Hoping you can help me.

Cheers
Corinna 

Offline Annette7

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 15 May 21 14:57 BST (UK) »
According to 1851 census Luke Holman was born in Ditchling, Sussex - there seems to be virtually nothing regarding baptisms for this parish, for the relevant timeframe, available online.

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Offline rosie99

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 15 May 21 15:21 BST (UK) »
Genuki suggests that Ditchling registers are available at East Sussex record Office.

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SSX/Ditchling/TheParishChurchofStMargaret

It appears that Luke committed suicide  Brighton Gazette 15 July 1852. 
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Offline trish1120

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 16 May 21 11:46 BST (UK) »
Witnesses at the 1820 Marriage are Thos and Lyda Holman
Luke is of Wivelsfield at the time of the Marriage.

Now there is a Bapt St Nicholas of Myra, Brighton for a LYDIA Holman 21 Dec 1832
Parents THOMAS/LYDIA
Note; Lydia daughter of Thomas & Lydia (deceased) Holman. Transcriber note: Possible that margin note has date of birth but cut off in scan.
(FreeREG)

This is also on Anc and she was bapt as an adult;
Birth 17 Nov 1800*****
Bapt 21 Dec 1832

Also on FreeREG to same couple MARY Bapt 17 Mar 1835 same Church, Birth 09 Feb 1794****
Father a Tailor
Abode Ditchling *********


So is the Lydia the Marriage witness the Daug or wife of Thomas I wonder.

What I am trying to say is that your Luke may have been a late Bapt also and possible child of Thomas/Lydia

Trish :)


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Offline corinnapickett

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 17 May 21 10:38 BST (UK) »
Thanks Annette Rosie and Trish
Yes I think the possibility of Thomas and Lydia being his parents is worth following up.  DNA suggests that there is a link with a Thomas Holman on a match.  DNA may be might best chance at getting a definite answer to my query.
Thank you once again fro your help in my search.  Please let me know if you come across further info that you think would help.
Cheers Corinna

Offline Drayke

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 19 May 21 06:34 BST (UK) »
Hello Corinna,

Sorry I did not reply earlier, however didn't see your reply till today. As others have mentioned there seems to be a lot of late baptisms for Thomas Holman's children. Thomas resided in Ditchling in the early 1800's.

According to the "Land tax assessments for the parish of Ditchling, 1780-1832" Thomas Holman is listed as leasing a house from a William Hanson in 1801. Then from 1802-1806 leasing from Mrs Elliot a house. These are the only mentions of Thomas in Ditchling in the land tax assessment. So I would say the 1851 Census stating Luke being born in Ditchling is correct and he is the son of Thomas Holman.

Along with this there are also mentions of Holman's being in the area in tenure of land with an 1803 mortgage record stating that:
"...of the messuage with barns, stables &c. and several closes of land called Oathal Inholms, Lockscroft, Twybrooks als Two Brooks, the Round Inholms, the Innholms Wood and the Walkers crofts, formerly computed at 118 acres, but by admeasurement, 127a. 2r. 23p. in Wivelsfield and Ditchling, formerly in the tenure of John Holman and Thos. Holman and late of Henry Buckman and then of the said Edward Evitt."

How far back this "formerly in the tenure of John Holman and Thomas Holman" goes I am unsure. That said, a Thomas Holman who married Sarah in 1723 had all his children in Wivelsfield.

Whether your Luke is a descent from this early 1700's Thomas Holman of Wivelsfield family line I am unsure however, perhaps may give you some base to establish your research in finding a link.

Regards, Drayke.

Offline corinnapickett

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 October 23 06:58 BST (UK) »
Hello Drayke
I just come across your reply to my query.  Thanks so much for posting this information.  I am quite bullish on following this lead of Thomas and Lydia Holman.  I just can't understand why I cannot locate a birth registration for Luke Holman.  He could have been going by his middle name which was quite common.  I will just keep on researching and hopefully one day will be able to verify who is parents really are.

Kind regards

Corinna Pickett

Offline jonw65

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Re: Holman Family - What are the chances?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 October 23 07:23 BST (UK) »
From The Keep
Luke Holeman
Date: 30 Oct 1817
Brighton Petty Sessional Division (Brighton Magistrates' Court)
ESRO reference:PTS/2/1/1 pages 439-440
Description: Victim: Commissioners Offence: abusive behaviour, Sentence: bound in 20 to keep peace for 6 months, to be committed for breach
https://www.thekeep.info/collections/getrecord/GB179_PTS_2_1_1_548

Same date
https://www.thekeep.info/collections/getrecord/GB179_PTS_2_1_1_550