William Henry Kemp - both senior and junior:father and son

[jk22]

Hello.

It's been a while.

William Henry Kemp (sr) [WHKsr) was born in 1867 to Henry and Emily Catherine Kemp with birth registered in Whitechapel.

I have no adult info on WHKsr:  the last mention is his being on the 1881 census at school in Ingatestone.  His younger brother Arthur George is also there.  There father was remarried, to another Emily (Jacklin) and they had 6 children together, so i expect that the boys were to be elsewhere whilst the new family developed.

One of their 6 was Florence Kate Kemp, later Mrs Salt.  Her husband was rather unwell due to the war and seems to have died early in an asylum of some kind.  Their 2 sons, William and Sidney are shown in a photo together with their mother, Florence, and several other family members, most of whom i know. 

Florence's son, Sydney, married in 1939 and his eldest dtr was June Valerie Kemp-Salt.  It was with her that i liaised and learned some good stuff.  However some links are still not clear to me.

Sadly June died a year or so ago.  She had sent me a small range of photocopied photos with some having her notations on the reverse.

June told me that her father's uncle, "Uncle Will", was married to a lady late in life.  Her name was Phyllis May Metcalf.  They had no children. But i don't know if "Uncle Will" had previously married as his origins elude me.

I gather that "Uncle Will's' father was WHKsr (b1867) and it was he who had attended June's parents' marriage in 1939.  I have a group wedding photo with June's notes on the back but they are rather uncertain in part as she freely admits.

A photo taken in 1955 in Redhill, Surrey, shows Uncle Will and Phyllis with June, her 2 sisters and only brother, along with their mother, posing in what looks like the home garden of Uncle Will and Phyllis. 

Looking closely at the face of Uncle Will, he does look like WHKsr.  I have it that Uncle Will was born in 1897 and so in 1955 he would be a man about 60 and this seem to agree with what is seen.

Is it possible to find the lady whom WHKsr married - some time presumably in the 1890's, and to obtain her dates and confirm her being Uncle Will's mother?!

*
WHK: 1867-1947
WHK/Uncle Will: c1897-1977
Phyllis May Metcalf:  1906-1994
Florence Kate Kemp/Salt:  1880-1938
Henry Kemp:  1836-1908
Emily Catherine Kemp/Kemp:  1845-1871
Sydney Albert Kemp Salt:  1918-1978

Thank you,
Julie

[Dundee]

You should start with the marriage cert to confirm his age, father and father's occupation.

Marriages Jun 1944   

METCALF    Phyllis M   (KEMP)
KEMP    William    (METCALF)    
Surrey S.E.
2a   1367

Debra 

[jomcd967]

Worth looking at is ...
1901 4 Fair Street Mile End Old Town (RG13/328/91/6)
William Henry Kemp, head, 36, druggists foreman, born Stepney
Maud Kemp, wife, 24, born Stepney
Charles E Kemp, son, 10, ditto
Arthur Kemp, son, 8, ditto
William H Kemp, son, 2, ditto.

They at found again at the same address 10 years later and William H jnr is known as Will. WHK snr states married 1897.....possibly the WHK marrying Maud Annie Ryell  1897 in Stepney.

Edited - forget this, the marriage of WHK to Maud states father is John kemp.

Jo 

[avm228]

Worth looking at is ...
1901 4 Fair Street Mile End Old Town (RG13/328/91/6)
William Henry Kemp, head, 36, druggists foreman, born Stepney
Maud Kemp, wife, 24, born Stepney
Charles E Kemp, son, 10, ditto
Arthur Kemp, son, 8, ditto
William H Kemp, son, 2, ditto.

They at found again at the same address 10 years later and William H jnr is known as Will. WHK snr states married 1897.....possibly the WHK marrying Maud Annie Royal 1897 in Stepney.

Edited - forget this, the marriage of WHK to Maud states father is John kemp.

Jo 

To me this looks too good to eliminate immediately on the basis of an error as to paternity.  We don’t know how young he was when he left his widowed father’s home, or what (if any) relationship they maintained after that.  His mother had already died by the time of the 1871 census.

I see from the baptism that WHKsr’s exact birthdate was 5 February 1867, which may help with later records.

[avm228]

On the other hand, William Kemp also named his father as John Kemp (foreman) on his first marriage, to Alice Seymour, 25 December 1888 St Paul, Bow Common.

[jomcd967]

Brother Arthur George didn’t marry until 1906 and named his father as Henry, a retired licensed victualled, I agree with Dundee that the marriage certificate is the best starting point.

Jo 

[avm228]

We are told Uncle Will died in 1977.

Was he the William Henry Kemp of Pullcotts Farm Burstow Horley Sureey who died 10 May 1977?

Birthdate of this WHK (per death reg): 10 October 1897.

He seems to have been at Pullcotts Farm long-term.

First wife was Alice Elsey - marr Sep qtr 1920 Reigate.

His mother possibly a Jane Ann.

[avm228]

Parents WHK born 10.10.1897 are therefore possibly:

William Henry Kemp
Jane Ann Thorpe

Married Mar qtr 1897 Sevenoaks 2a 889.

[avm228]

Parents of Uncle Will therefore possibly:

William Henry Kemp
Jane Ann Thorpe

Married Mar qtr 1897 Sevenoaks 2a 889.

But this William senior claims in 1901 to have been born in Burstow, so on that basis not a match for WHKsr.

(And earlier censuses show he was indeed born there).