Author Topic: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died  (Read 10489 times)

Offline RickyJack

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #36 on: Monday 17 June 19 05:53 BST (UK) »
Well well Janelle...wondered when i'd run into you....first time a funeral in Brisbane in January
I can see you are very very thorough with your research....however I have been completely distracted from my direction...I couldnt understand why it was so difficult to find the Captain of a ship especially one as important as a convict ship..[praise the Lord} As reported earlier a solid tip.. well solid enough to check and be able to ask our 156 DNA matches...do your Ward come from Stockton-on-Tees, Durham, England as early as 1770. I have started today...may turn out to be nothing but its a lovely coincidence that ol John Ward got his masters ticket less than 6 months before he took on the Canada ..cheers for now...another cold wet day here in Tasmania...Rick

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #37 on: Monday 17 June 19 06:09 BST (UK) »
Well well Janelle...wondered when i'd run into you....first time a funeral in Brisbane in January
I can see you are very very thorough with your research....however I have been completely distracted from my direction...I couldnt understand why it was so difficult to find the Captain of a ship especially one as important as a convict ship..[praise the Lord} As reported earlier a solid tip.. well solid enough to check and be able to ask our 156 DNA matches...do your Ward come from Stockton-on-Tees, Durham, England as early as 1770. I have started today...may turn out to be nothing but its a lovely coincidence that ol John Ward got his masters ticket less than 6 months before he took on the Canada ..cheers for now...another cold wet day here in Tasmania...Rick

I have no idea what you are on about; I am not your Janelle,  I was not in Brisbane in January and I am not  WARD descendant. 

I am concerned that you are assuming a baby girl baptised in 1811 in NSW with mother as Mary PRESTON would have been known by the surname WARD .... and then presuming that lass married as WARD ....that is not how the system operated in NSW n that era.  Mary's baby, as she grew up would have become known by whatever surname Mary was using at the time ... so the lass born 1811 likely may have become known as PRESTON ... very unlikely to have been known as WARD

JM
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Offline RickyJack

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #38 on: Monday 17 June 19 06:32 BST (UK) »
WOOPPS!!!!!!

Offline majm

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 18 June 19 00:05 BST (UK) »
Before you seek out the Captain of the Canada as your possible ancestor,  I think you need to be sure you have a common ancestor among the children of the couple who married in 1828 ... remember that the bride has been transcribed as Mary WEARD.   

Do you have an actual image of the parish register,  including her signature?  If so perhaps you could snip her signature and ask on the decipher board for help.  1828,  Mrs Mary McMAHON was alive, in NSW, yet her consent to Mary WEARDs marriage is not mentioned....that is unusual and is  another reason for concern .'friends ... consent v consent of mother' ...

I have been seeking Mary PRESTON per Canada,  found her in 1814 with husband P McMahon and 2 children, so her 1811 daughter would have then been known as Mary McMAHON. 

I have searched carefully BUT I have not found any mention of Mary McMAHON, widow, or her daughter being known by surname WARD or WEARD.

JM.
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline RickyJack

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 18 June 19 01:28 BST (UK) »
Good Morning....well....Mate I dont have such things as an image of the parish records....Im sure someone in the family does amd trust me I would have heard if the name was Weard...I believe this is a typo or just someone that just "dont spell real good" Have you not considered thats why you may be have trouble finding this information..I have been able to supply some answers to your questions from the Family book so have a little info but not such things as parish record or scans.
 The name of the Master of the ship was John Ward - but Mary Preston definitely names the father of her daughter (at baptism later in February 1811) as James Ward - we know nothing of him at all apart from the fact he was named as the father of Mary Ward.  There is no known convict of this name on the ship, so presumably he was part of the crew and returned with his ship.
There are many familytrees on MyH I carefully borrowed this one from Stephen Wood....as he seems to be the most reliable  Familysearch has information there also..isnt it weard that not one mentioned the surname weard

Frances Maria (Mary) Preston/McMahon (born Ward)
1811 - 1837
Birth:   Feb 1 1811
 Sydney City, New South Wales, Australia
Christening:   Feb 10 1811
 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Marriage:   Marriage to: William Henry Payton
May 19 1828
 Pitt Town, New South Wales, Australia
Death:   Died in childbirth
Nov 27 1837
 Pitt Town, Hawkesbury, New South Wales, Australia
Burial:   Nov 29 1837
 Pitt Town, Hawkesbury, New South Wales, Australia
Family members
Parents:   
James John Ward
1776 - 1812
Mary Ward/mcmahon (born Preston)
1790 - 1862
Husband:   
William Henry Payton
1799 - 1869

Mary Preston married an Irish convict, Patrick McMAHON in 1813 and they had a son - John James McMahon - about whom nothing is known; possibly he died young - we don't know. Patrick arrived on the "Anne" in 1810. In 1814 he received a conditional pardon - information given was that he was tried at Middlesex 1809, was a native of Limerick, occupation - attorney, age 29. He was about 5'5" tall, fair ruddy complexion, red hair, hazel eyes. Patrick died in a drunken brawl (he didn't fall, he was pushed) in 1816. Mary, who it seems was nothing short of amazing for her time, put in a claim c 1818 for what we would probably now call damages and lost wages, to Patrick's employer - for the small sum (not) of £6,000 - but I've never found evidence that (a) she received any compensation or (b) that she even went through with the case. This I believe is the source of the "Irish connection" story, continued through to the death certificate of Sophia Wilbow (nee Payton) and continued as oral tradition (possibly) in other family lines. Mary seems to have had her wits about her, she was literate, after the death of her husband she tried to get compensation through legal means and she started a clothing/general goods shop (from memory I think that's what she sold), she advertised in the papers and later she started a lodging house. Mary McMahon (nee Preston)

Offline majm

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 18 June 19 02:07 BST (UK) »
WEARD ... If you were to check through the NSW BDMs index for their holdings for many of the  Early Church Records they obtained back in the 1850s, you will discover they have the 1828 PAYTON=WEARD marriage, indexed as WEARD.   

I have not sighted the actual image, and it is not available from NSW BDM, as those early volumes are fragile.  They were indexed by teams of volunteers in the 1930s, experienced people whose own longhand writing styles were similar to those on the parish registers.  That style of longhand has not been taught in NSW schools since the mid 1960s.  The filming of those Early Church Records holdings held by NSW BDM was completed decades ago.

You should be offering to share your bdm certs with the owner of the submitted tree that you are copy/pasting from, in anticipation that they have the image of that PAYTON=WEARD marriage. 

May I again mention that Mary PRESTON does NOT name her daughter as Mary WARD, and it is the Illegitimate List that records the name of the father as James WARD.  The list is a compiled list, the information came from a number of sources, it does not show that Mary PRESTON named any person as the father... It shows that the compiler of that list noted the reputed fathers.  These illegitimate lists were prepared on a number of occasions in that decade for the civil administrative tasks in respect of General Orders issued by the NSW Governor.   Macquarie was focused about criminal intercourse and inheritance rules.  See the following cutting:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/627934 Sydney Gazette 24 Feb 1810

JM

Good Morning....well....Mate I dont have such things as an image of the parish records....Im sure someone in the family does amd trust me I would have heard if the name was Weard...I believe this is a typo or just someone that just "dont spell real good" Have you not considered thats why you may be have trouble finding this information..I have been able to supply some answers to your questions from the Family book so have a little info but not such things as parish record or scans.
 The name of the Master of the ship was John Ward - but Mary Preston definitely names the father of her daughter (at baptism later in February 1811) as James Ward - we know nothing of him at all apart from the fact he was named as the father of Mary Ward.  There is no known convict of this name on the ship, so presumably he was part of the crew and returned with his ship.
There are many familytrees on MyH I carefully borrowed this one from Stephen Wood....as he seems to be the most reliable  Familysearch has information there also..isnt it weard that not one mentioned the surname weard

Frances Maria (Mary) Preston/McMahon (born Ward)
1811 - 1837
Birth:   Feb 1 1811
 Sydney City, New South Wales, Australia
Christening:   Feb 10 1811
 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Marriage:   Marriage to: William Henry Payton
May 19 1828
 Pitt Town, New South Wales, Australia
Death:   Died in childbirth
Nov 27 1837
 Pitt Town, Hawkesbury, New South Wales, Australia
Burial:   Nov 29 1837
 Pitt Town, Hawkesbury, New South Wales, Australia
Family members
Parents:   
James John Ward
1776 - 1812
Mary Ward/mcmahon (born Preston)
1790 - 1862
Husband:   
William Henry Payton
1799 - 1869

Mary Preston married an Irish convict, Patrick McMAHON in 1813 and they had a son - John James McMahon - about whom nothing is known; possibly he died young - we don't know. Patrick arrived on the "Anne" in 1810. In 1814 he received a conditional pardon - information given was that he was tried at Middlesex 1809, was a native of Limerick, occupation - attorney, age 29. He was about 5'5" tall, fair ruddy complexion, red hair, hazel eyes. Patrick died in a drunken brawl (he didn't fall, he was pushed) in 1816. Mary, who it seems was nothing short of amazing for her time, put in a claim c 1818 for what we would probably now call damages and lost wages, to Patrick's employer - for the small sum (not) of £6,000 - but I've never found evidence that (a) she received any compensation or (b) that she even went through with the case. This I believe is the source of the "Irish connection" story, continued through to the death certificate of Sophia Wilbow (nee Payton) and continued as oral tradition (possibly) in other family lines. Mary seems to have had her wits about her, she was literate, after the death of her husband she tried to get compensation through legal means and she started a clothing/general goods shop (from memory I think that's what she sold), she advertised in the papers and later she started a lodging house. Mary McMahon (nee Preston)
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 18 June 19 02:31 BST (UK) »
NSW BDM index for marriages.
William H PAYTON, Mary WEARD.
1828 Volume 12, Line 801,
1828 Volume 3B, line 297.

I also understand it is also available via Ancestry and Find My Past.

I believe the following is the marriage of Mary McMAHON a widow, ex Canada 1810, aged 39, to John WILSON 10 April 1838, Castlereagh.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZK-CQR

Castlereagh is of course in the Hawkesbury District, and just like Pitt Town is one of the five Macquarie Towns.

ADD
My transcription:
John WILSON, free, of Penrith, per Byron 2, aged 58, signed, and Mary MACMAHON, of Penrith, per Canada, aged 39, signed, married by Banns, 10 April 1838, Castlereagh CofE, by Henry Fulton.  Witnesses: Thomas PURDY x mark, Ann ABBOTT, signed.

I understand Banns were read 25 March, 1 April, 8 April, 1838. 


JM
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Offline majm

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 18 June 19 03:00 BST (UK) »
I have located the submitted tree that you have mentioned, and according to that tree William Henry McMAHON was born May 8, 1826 , in Pitt Town NSW and he was baptised 6 December 1737, Gloucester, St Michael, Gloucestershire, England.   

It is of course, ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to be baptised BEFORE they have been born.

“ William Henry McMahon (Born Payton) was born on May 8, 1826, in Pitt Town, New South Wales, Australia, to Frances Maria(Mary) Ward/McMahon, age 15, and William Henry Payton, age 27.”


ADD same submitted tree has the following info re the lass born to Mary PRESTON.

"When Frances Maria(Mary) Ward/McMahon was born on February 1, 1811, her father, Patrick, was 26, and her mother, Mary, was 21. She had one son and two daughters with William Henry Payton between 1826 and 1836. She died as a young mother in 1837 in Pitt Town, New South Wales, Australia, at the age of 26, and was buried in Maldon, Essex, England."

I wonder how the body was repatriated to England...

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: John B WARD master of ship Canada 1810 where born married ,died
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 18 June 19 03:10 BST (UK) »
Wait ... that same submitted tree, they have found your James WARD in NSW

'When John Ward was born in 1812, his father, James, was 36 and his mother, Mary, was 22. He had two children with Sarah Murray and four children with Margaret Ward. He died in 1859 in Campbelltown, New South Wales, Australia, at the age of 47, and was buried in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.'   
"Birth
John Ward was born in 1812 to Mary Preston, age 22, and James Ward, age 36.'

It is unwise to rely on submitted trees.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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