John Hope and Jane Bolton

[MonicaL]

1861:

John Loftus 33 b. Ireland
Mary Loftus 28 wife b. Ireland
Patrick Loftus 6
William Loftus 3
Michael Loftus 1
Julia Loftus 63 mother b. Ireland
John Blythe 24 visitor basket maker b. Yetholm, Roxburghshire
Mary Blythe 23 visitor b. Ireland
Matthew Blythe 2 *
Patrick Blythe 2 Months *

Missed these off the FS link above. Also born in Yetholm.

Why would John change his name from Blythe to Hope   

Monica

[rosie17]

1881 census John Hope  says he was born 1841  Coldstream Berwickshire Ag Lab:
1891 John Hope 1842 down as England Ag Lab
1901 John Hope 1844 Lillieslief Roxburgh ploughman

Rosie

[trish1120]

Outside chance?

1851 Census

John Blythe, 35, Hawker Earthen Ware, born Yetholm, Roxburghshire
Elisabeth Blythe, 30, born Yorkshire
Andrew Blythe, 12, born Yetholm
David Blythe, 10, born Yetholm
JOHN Blythe, 8, born Yetholm
Stewart Blythe, 5, born Carham, Northumberland
William Blythe, 3, born Yetholm
Martha Blythe, 1 mth, born Yetholm

1861 John is not at Home. The Father John is a Basket Maker.

[rosie17]

Thanks Monica and Trish for your help still no further advanced the 1871 census for David and Julie as Blythe I would think would be right Monica as don't see them as Blythe on the 1881 census ..Wonder how he changed his name to John Hope  ..There was an Anne Blythe born 1871 Yetholm Roxburgh to John and Mary Loftus ..Checked the death for Annie Hope 1903 married name Linton and the parents are still listed as John Hope and Jane Bell ..There is a possibility I have John Hope on the 1911 census in Westruther as a boarder with a Robert and Mary Craw ..Gives his age as 73 farm servant widower born Lillieslief Roxburgh which would make him born about 1838 ...I also have him on the
Valuation Rolls 1906 1907 at House Blythe Lauder where his wife died ...Still not finding a death for him as Hope or Blythe ...

Rosie

[MonicaL]

You certainly have yourself a puzzle here, Rosie 

Given the name of first born son Matthew for John Blythe and wife Mary Loftus, I thought this might be him in 1851 (haven't been able to find 1841 so far):

www.scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=81103059

We had this earlier, but adding again as a link from 1861:

www.scottishindexes.com/61transcript.aspx?houseid=80303001

Can't see any reference at all so far to a John Hope that could fit in the earlier censuses 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Scottish Indexes' Prison Registers show:

John Blythe, Muggar, Yetholm   12   Yetholm   Jedburgh   1850
www.scottishindexes.com/advanced.aspx

Blythe family trees on A/try also include:

1850 • Yetholm

Imprisoned as a youth. Name John Blythe Occupation Muggar Residence Yetholm Year Jailed 1850 Age 12 Estimated Birth Year 1838 Birthplace Yetholm Sex M Prison Jedburgh County Roxburghshire NRS Reference HH21/16/2 p. 18

Adding for background. Doesn't help with the Blythe v. Hope issue here...

Monica

[rosie17]

Just had a look at some of the  Blythe tree's on Ancestry which I never thought to check to busy looking for Hope ..I see they have the mother down as Elizabeth Hope father Mathew Blythe the Blythe family seemed to like their holiday's in jail  ...Yes Monica this family is quite a problem
I am doing this for my son in law not as easy as I thought it would be ....Will have a look and see if I can find any family on the 1841 census

Rosie

[Sunlaws]

Perhaps this family is hard to track down as they are travellers, or gypsies. The last Queen of the Gypsies in Yetholm was Esther Faa BLYTHE
https://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/esther.html

The occupations of 'mugger' (seller of earthen ware) and basket maker also point to them being gypsies.

Regards,
Lesley

[MonicaL]

Thanks, Lesley. In my utter ignorance, I read 'mugger' as his crime (with the modern use of the word) 

I came across this:

The Travellers, or Gypsies as they used to be called, have a long association with this region and once had a ‘royal family’ enthroned at Kirk Yetholm, just over the border from Wooler. There is some evidence to suggest that the former American President Bill Clinton is a descendent of the royal family of Yetholm.

Clinton was born William Blyth IV and only adopted his stepfather’s name ‘Clinton’ when he was at college. Genealogists have traced the president’s lineage back to an uncle of Queen Esther Faa Blyth, one Andrew Blyth, who moved to America in 1801–....
www.geni.com/projects/Romani-Gypsy-Notables/13111

Rosie, I do hope we are able to link up John from Blythe to Hope. It will be such an interesting ancestry to research. I think we are on the right track, but how to turn pencil mark to pen!

Monica