Thomas RICHARDS b1817 LLanarmon Mynydd Mahr near Oswestry county Denbigh Wales

[RickyJack]

Sorry Gadget...we only have that info from the convict sheet...I find it very strange that both Rosan and Thomas never revealed their origin or parents...all we had was he had a Welsh accent and the convict record which read Denbigh nr Oswestry trial at Ruthin.
Correct maybe a broader search for the combination of siblings..
Im a beginner to rootchat so apologies if not quite doin it by the book
Kind Regards Rick

[Gadget]

Your doing fine, Rick 

I've still not got anything definite  for them. I'll have a look again tomorrow.  Do you have Rosan's age/date of birth?  She sounds possibly Irish.

Gadget

[RickyJack]

Thanks...Yes we have all  Rosan Family info [called herself Rosina Currie] here and correct their line does go back to Ireland...we are quite certain that Thomas and Rosina didnt know each other before Tasmania...Thomas arrived 1840 did 5 years as a farm labourer = 1845 then had 10 years to save to buy a farm before Rosina arrived...it was a good deal really for the Ladies...The St Andrews Presbyterian church Glasgow offered a free trip to Tassie as long as they signed on for three years as some sort of payed in house labour and or got married as the ratio was 7 men for every woman.
When the convicts stopped coming there was plenty of paid work,water and land they stayed where as the convicts were not paid therfore had no money to go back home and stayed.
Do Appreciate you spending some time on this..Thankyou...Rick

[Gadget]

Just querying  the John b 1841.  On the 1851 that you mention he is recorded as Job not John.  It's clearly written as Job compared with the one below him on the page is a John Rowlands.

[RickyJack]

Hi again....Thankyou..
There is an entry at a place called Cofen Cach...mentions
Elizabeth Richards age 25 Chare Woman
Charles age 6
Eliza age 3
John age 3 months
Im not 100% with this 1861 Census findings
village called Rhydless near Oswestry, Shropshire England
John Richards Servant Unmarried Male 21
born 1840 Agricultural Labourer
Llansilin,Denbighshire,
Would dearly love to find off spring from these two Richards males Charles and John and have DNA done to confirm....as Thomas fathered both families
Cheers Rick

[Gadget]

 Cefn Coch is in Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant parish, Montgameryshire. It's adjacent to LMM

https://maps.nls.uk/view/102186662#zoom=4&lat=5629&lon=1485&layers=BT


Rhydleos is part of the parish of Llansilin. Spelled as Rhyd-lios on this map:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/102341249#zoom=5&lat=4020&lon=8406&layers=BT


If the descendant has a DNA test, there might be descendants of the other family who might match.

[RickyJack]

Good Morning..well with your local knowledge What a gem you are....
Gosh with all these village names we are dealing with a very small area...makes me wonder why this combination is so hard to find... his siblings were William,Joseph and Richard, Kitty,Elizabeth and
Maryann...it maybe Mary and Ann =4 boys and 4 girls...as the names are not in alphabetical order just maybe they are in their age order...more than once Ive tried to calculate this for example if Thomas was born 1817 William 1818 and so on this would make Mary and Ann born around 1824.
I would think census of 1841 should have Dad Thomas ,wife and half the kids..somewhere in the England or Wales census.
cheers Rick

[Gadget]

Hi Rkick

I've found Thomas and Elizabeth's marriage entry. They married in Llansilin on  the date you gave in your first post.

Both are given as 'of the parish'. This might just mean that they lived in Llansilin for 3 weeks before the marriage (3 x reading Banns).  The witnesses were John Williams and James Jones. All but John Williams made their mark.

This does suggest that Thomas might well have  moved around the area for labouring work and could have been born at many parishes in the wider area.

I have looked for the siblings but, again, there is nothing obvious.


Gadget

[RickyJack]

Thanks again Gadget..I have a tree that Ive put together, am I allowed to put it on Rootchat??
This came about because I got George Richards [my elderly neighbour] to have a DNA mainly to prove he was Welsh, results came back a very sound 88.1% Welsh. why this was so important is that there were 4 Thomas Richards convicts in Tasmania of which 3 were English, and Geo said his Family always thought their ancestor had a Welsh accent..not much to go on....remember the joke..The police had their toilet pinched at the station..apparently they had nothing to go on...!!!Geo had over 2000 DNA matches on the first day..more than100 matches each for Richards,Hughes,Edwards and others plus over 300 or so for surname Jones.A 3rd cousin match came from a Mr Hughes just inside the Welsh Shropshire border,he went on to tell me that his Hughes has married Richards many times and even a Richards married a Richards, but could not find the combination of siblings for our Thomas Richards. so we now have the villages and the names and sadly just cant get them to fit..Thanks again Rick