Thomas RICHARDS b1817 LLanarmon Mynydd Mahr near Oswestry county Denbigh Wales

[Gadget]

Just an observation:

The criminal records show his age as 26 in August 1840. this gives a birthdate of circa 1814.
What was the source of the 1817 birth that you quoted?

Gadget

[RickyJack]

well done...I had to recheck my files   typo  apologies
Name: Thomas Richards 
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1814
Date of Trial: 4 Aug 1840
Trial Year: 1840
Location of Trial: Denbighshire, Wales
Sentence: Transportation
I believe he got transported as he only got out of in June 1840 and back in August....I actually had a look to see if the reason the combination could not be found is that they may all have been in Jail There is a couple that have potential..Elizabeth gets a mention as well as
Name: Mary Ann Richards 
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1819
Date of Trial: 30 Dec 1839
Trial Year: 1839
Location of Trial: Shropshire, England
Sentence: Acquittal

[RickyJack]

Gadget. I wonder if you maybe able to help Please
I have all these place names...I dont seem to be able to get a map with all them on, I guess some villages dont exist today therefore not on modern maps and with boundary changes over the years. I was hoping to get one map with all the places our Richards have been
Hafod y Cwm, Llanarmon M M, Denbighshire, Wales
Llansilin
Oswestry
Llanrhaiadr Y M, Denbighshire, Wales
 Cofen Cach.
Bala
 Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant
Appreciate anything you can find...Kind Regards Rick

[Gadget]

They are a bit geographically spread so it's unlikely but you could use:

Streetmap:

 https://tinyurl.com/y2gxbjoh

nls- maps:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/74466916

and pan around.


Gadget

[RickyJack]

You have saved the day Gadget...the maps worked well..
What I wanted to do was print out the map as we are bouncing all around that particular area of Denbighshire....Our Thomas Richards was said to have come from  Llanarmon M M ..just recently we have had another match...a descendant of Richard Richards LMM..problem is he was born 1800...we understand our Thomas was born 1814..apparently there was only about 40 people in this area

Richard Edwards married Hughes
                                                                                             
                   Hugh Richards married Hughes
                         I                                                                   I
                 Morris Richards married Ann Richards -------                                           
                         I                                                                                         
                Edward Richards married Ann Jones  ---........................................
                                                                                                                     
                Edward Richards married  Davies                                                   
                         I                                                                                           
               Thomas Hughes married  Annie Richards                                         
                                                I                                                                                                                         
               Richard Albert Hughes married Jones                                                     
                                                I                                                                     
                                             Our DNA match
 Morris Richards married Ann Richards -------                                 Morris Richards b.1771  Llanarmon M.M   d. 1831 Hafod
   married 1  1798
   Anne Richards   1776-1857  b.Llangadwaladr,Llansilin Denbigh ..  had 13 kids
 marriage 2 for Ann was Richard Richards   
I feel this is our problem...Morris and Ann Richards from  two different Richards Lines then Ann second Marriage was to another Richard Richards
Our new DNA match is also to Morris and Ann Richards
Often ask myself..what chance do we have on the other side of the Globe ever  to understanding this
cheers Rick                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                     

[Gadget]

I know the problem well - I have Jones, Roberts, Hughes, Evans, Williams, Parry, Griffiths,  etc., and Richards. Then we have the aps

What is the amount of DNA that you share with your match? Also, have you checked the matches that you have in common (shared matches)?

Gadget

[Gibel]

To me when it says “late of the parish of Llanarmon” that means that was where he was living rather than his birthplace.

[Gadget]

Agree - see my reply #16  and #7

Hi Rkick

I've found Thomas and Elizabeth's marriage entry. They married in Llansilin on  the date you gave in your first post.

Both are given as 'of the parish'. This might just mean that they lived in Llansilin for 3 weeks before the marriage (3 x reading Banns).  The witnesses were John Williams and James Jones. All but John Williams made their mark.

This does suggest that Thomas might well have  moved around the area for labouring work and could have been born at many parishes in the wider area.

I have looked for the siblings but, again, there is nothing obvious.


Gadget

Rick - have you checked the shared DNA matches, as I mentioned in my previous reply?

[RickyJack]

Good Morning 5am..Thanks for your replies
One DNA match to George Richards was a 3-5 cousin match  1 shared segment and 9.5 cM with a paternal line to Morris and Ann Richards
another is Hughes a 2nd cousin match with 54 shared segments also with strong connections to Morris and Ann....this is our strongest match out of Australia...just for the exercise I put in Richards as matches...there are 81Richards 65 Edwards 51 Hughes and Jones to my surprise 161 people that match Geo have Jones as ancestral surnames ...appreciate the fact that they are all big names in Wales....however if you look at it from my side started off with the name Thomas Richards from convict sheet LMM near Oswestry familynames and now from 7 billion people living in this world Ive got two DNA definate's from LMM and a few others lived quite close by....I think you might be quite right young Gadget..possible that one/each kid was born in a different town starting from 1814 and had left the nest by the 1841 census ...cheers Rick