Wheelwrights

[jck1103]

I have a problem with my ancestor Edward Barnes, he married in St Pancras in 1827 and was a wheelwright. In 1841 he was in St Pancras but not of the parish, his wife Anna Maria was not of the parish either. Edward died in 1850. In 1851 Anna Maria stated that she was born in Bath. I have found Edwards death and burial but still don’t know where he was born. I was thinking he must have done an apprenticeship so would look for something between 1813 and 1827, has anyone got any ideas ? After 20 years of not knowing I’m getting desperate !

[goldie61]

Have you searched the London apprenticeship records on findmypast?
Also thegenealogist.co.uk have some I believe.

There's also this site for London guilds or livery companies.
https://www.londonroll.org/search

Not found where he was born, but is this him in a trial at the Old Bailey? Well, his son is trial, and he is called as a witness.
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?name=18451215

If his wife was from Bath, he may well have come from that area too?
(I suspect you have looked at this).

[jck1103]

Oh dear ! They are my Edward and James Barnes ! At least James was found not guilty ! Never thought to look for them in the courts.  Thank you ! Have looked at Bath and apprenticeships no luck so far, maybe one day ....... thank you again 

[goldie61]

Oh dear ! They are my Edward and James Barnes ! At least James was found not guilty !

Yes! He could have been transported to Australia as some of the others on this page were!
All for a handkerchief! 

[jck1103]

That’s true ! But James still deserted his wife and child my gt gt grandmother and jumped ship in New Zealand, remarried and had a large family ! Think he was the black sheep ! His two brothers did well, sadly my gt gt grandmother had a hard life and couldn’t read or write bless her, while his family in New Zealand were well educated. I just wish I could find out where his father Edward was born 

[goldie61]

Some ideas been going through my head.

Have you found out about how Edward's two sons managed to become choristers and composers of music?
It doesn't sound like the normal thing you'd find in a family in London in the mid 1800s.
Normally sons would be off getting a job to help with the family's expences.
How did a wheelwright afford to do this? - Loss of income from them, PLUS fees presumably.
It must have cost quite a lot to go and train to be an organist and professor of music.
How did Frank come to be a 'chorister at Chaple Royal' (from 1851 Census)?
And by 1861 , Edwin is an 'organist and Professor of Music.'

Surely you couldn't just walk in and say 'I want to join the choir', or 'I want to play the organ'!
I can see how Edwin's son could then follow in his father's footsteps. Once you've got your foot in the door...... (sad story about him...)
Have you looked for some history of musical people in the family before this?
How do you get to be a 'chorister of King's College'? Do they have any records?
You never know what information might be on them.

Bios from:
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=WSLUAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=%22Edwin+Barnes%22+organist&source=bl&ots=RTrVLWNlYq&sig=ACfU3U3SDah8caFZfwTOzSbnpyhCDdPkHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-183K-PPiAhUCfSsKHcaiC9MQ6AEwBHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

And:
http://composers-classical-music.com/b/BarnesEdwin.htm
http://composers-classical-music.com/b/BarnesFrederickEdwin.htm

Have you got any of the music they wrote?
Have you found an obituary in the papers for Edwin? Or even Frank or Edward?
Surely there is bound to be something about Edwin's son?
And did Edward , or Edwin etc leave a will?
Again, you never know what information might be in them.

I see James was a 'seaman' (lovingly transcribed as a 'slaman' on findmypast!!).
Have you found any papers for him? Royal Navy? Merchant Navy?
Again, you never know what might be on them.

Good luck! 

[jck1103]

Precisely ! We don’t know how the sons ended up doing what they did, when their father was a wheelwright ! Edwins son shot himself in Montreal while working over there. He had married Leonora Brahams a soprano with the Doyle Carte company. It’s a real puzzle. We think maybe there was a well off relative ? Or maybe their musical talent was recognised by the church ? Would love to get to the bottom of this enigma. We know it’s correct, we have letters supplied by James descendants in New Zealand that Edwin wrote to him, they mention our gt gt grandmother.  We also have certificates, we have proved the connection but haven’t been able to answer all the questions. Any suggestions would be most welcome !

[jck1103]

We have seen Edwins will, haven’t found one for Edward and James had a large family in New Zealand. Just wish we could find Edwards birth. He married Anna Maria Harris in 1827 in St Pancras she came from Bath.  There is a theory that maybe it was her family that were not impoverished, thank you for your reply it’s much appreciated, have only been looking for 20 years ! Lol 

[jck1103]

Just looked at Find My Past, nothing on the apprenticeships for Edward. Looked at newspapers no mention of Edwards death. Have a copy of newspaper reporting Fredericks death and know what James was doing. Have photos of Edwins gravestone in Hampstead, we just have so much on the family except the one thing we need to push further back. Edwards birth grrrrrr